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[Music]

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here's our interview with eric

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schneider as far as just taking us

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through your life you grew up in boston

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and the thing that really triggers

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a lot of things that happen in the book

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is your experience in the boy scouts so

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tell us what happened there i i i

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joined the boy scouts or actually the

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the cub scouts at a very young age and

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uh

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enjoyed it for a good portion as a child

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um

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from cub scouts i graduated into weeblos

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and which inevitably becomes boy scouts

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uh there was a group of individuals that

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ran that

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um specific troop and we're also very

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high up in the ranks of the boy scouts

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as far as in the office

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and uh and the corporate end of it and

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um you know unbeknownst to anybody and

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unbeknownst to anybody for a long time

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uh we're running a child pedophilia ring

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uh out of out of that troop

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and what was your situation at home

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during that time because i know at some

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point you were adopted

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i was adopted i was adopted about six

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months old um

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my sister was also adopted we were from

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separate families but um

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it was uh yeah we i we had everything we

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wanted for monetarily

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um but it was a very cold household um

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when did you learn you were adopted as

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early as i can remember

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they they didn't hesitate uh as soon as

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we could understand and he probably even

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before we could understand

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we were told yeah that's a strategy

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decision that parents make as to when to

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tell the kid and uh

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i don't know it seemed it used to be

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they would seem to wait

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as long as possible to tell and now it

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seems like

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they're being instructed to tell them as

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early as possible yeah well go figure my

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parents

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did it they did it the backwards way so

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as they did many things but

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uh yeah yeah no i don't have a personal

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theory that

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that it's better to to wait um but i

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mean

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did you did is that something that kind

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of weighed on you at any point

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this idea that i was adopted and

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wondering where your real parents were

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and wondering why they gave you up and

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abandoning that kind of stuff never gave

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much thought to the adoption until i was

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probably

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junior's junior senior year in high

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school and then

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and then there was a strong want and

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need to

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uh find out who my biological parents

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were not not for any other reason then

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you know i i just i wanted to know i i'm

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cut from the stone and then my character

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is that i just i need to know things you

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know

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even if it's going to be detrimental to

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me and did that happen

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it did i i eventually did find my birth

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different uh different situation

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it's it's a touchy subject uh mom i hope

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you're not watching

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um but so you connected with her but

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you're not necessarily um

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bonding bonded with her or staying in

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close touch

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we did for a number of years for about

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10 years my first wife

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actually uh had a client of hers who was

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a private investigator and i had had

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enough information from the situation in

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boston

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uh i used some of that leverage to

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to get information that i wouldn't have

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normally been able to get because boston

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is a closed adoption state

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so i had enough information that within

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about 15 minutes she had my birth mother

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and

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relationship for about 10 years

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and did she tell you the circumstances

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of the

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putting you up for adoption she did

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and uh that's one of the that's probably

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the biggest point of contention and why

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we don't speak today and and what caused

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the the rift between us now

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is i got a little bit different i got a

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story and in fact i spoke about a little

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bit in the book

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she read the book and she was kind of

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mortified at what i had said and and

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started taking some steps back and you

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know i was i was led to believe it was a

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date rape situation and uh you know

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which kind of weighed on me

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you think oh great i'm a product of rape

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and that explains a lot

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um and then come to find out as she

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backpedaled a little bit that it was

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maybe more inhibitions were down there

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was drinking going on

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my father's family i guess was

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incredibly wealthy uh owned an island

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off the coast of connecticut and they

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were at a summer party at their castle

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on the island and

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um drinking and you know and it sounded

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a little more like a

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a mutual type and i was angry i was mad

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i

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just you know you got drunk and

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you know wanted some how did you learn

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the other side of the story she she

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slowly reeled it out to me and

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and and i you know not stupid um you

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picked i picked up on it and

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and i i called her on it i said so you

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you're telling me you guys had too much

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to drink and maybe

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maybe he was a little you know forceful

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or you know aggressive

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verbally or something like that but you

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know this wasn't an

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actual date rape situation and she you

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know she said no

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it wasn't how old was she

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she was i believe 21. and i'm sorry 20

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20. and obviously

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you need to be forever grateful to her

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that

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she didn't have an abortion uh

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which is plenty of days i i i wish you

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did but

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uh yeah i know in in the in fact this

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isn't one of those days

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no no in the long run well with some

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other stuff that's going on but in the

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long run no i'm very grateful to her

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she's a wonderful woman

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uh i you know i see where a lot of my

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qualities come from

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she's uh she's very analytical she's

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very driven she's

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uh she's an accountant by trade and um

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she deals with some anxiety problems um

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she deals with some control issues and

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and a lot of that stuff played into what

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you know inevitably

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you know was a big blow up and and we

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haven't been able to

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together although i've tried you know

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many times she's just not

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uh she's she's just not having it

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and why didn't she have an abortion

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it was staunch catholic family new

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england um

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you know you just you that you just

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didn't do that although i mean some

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families did but her family was

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you know she was sent off up to

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massachusetts to harvard to for school

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and uh she she went to school while she

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was pregnant with me and

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you know had me while she was still in

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school and

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you know she told me about you had me

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for about a day and a half at the

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hospital and

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uh you know then they took me away and

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you know that was that

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and then what about dad did you find him

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she won't give another big point of

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contention she will not give me

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enough information to find him and i

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think because she for one never told him

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um she told me he he told her that he

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was uh in an

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automobile accident and was uh sterile

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do not have children

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uh obviously that's not the case um but

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the more she tells me i mean this this

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is a very very very

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affluent family and the from the last

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name and the research that i've done

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it's uh uh i his name was well i'm gonna

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throw it out there

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in case you're watching that his

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nickname she knows is sandy

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and the last name was fowler and uh

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so despite knowing sandy fowler as the

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name you haven't been able to find him

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i've tried some um but i just don't have

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enough information that sandy was a

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nickname it's not his real name

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um you know he had the blonde here and

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and that's where that came from

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um but yeah i i've only been doing it

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myself

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and uh i just haven't had a lot of luck

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she won't come forward with any more

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information have you done one of the uh

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23andme type tests i i did ancestry and

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me nothing came back

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i think the test was kind of i think the

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test never actually made it to ancestry

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and i got some some paperwork back that

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probably wasn't from ancestry oh it was

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there was those those during another

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chain of events that's been unfolding

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here so well anyway

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maybe ought to try again and maybe maybe

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try both of them

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because there's 23 and me and there's

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ancestry i'm not sure

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if they share information or not but i

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certainly know

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plenty of stories of people that

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connected with relatives

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through that and including a biological

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father

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a very good friend of mine uh connected

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with her biological father

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uh through uh one she first connected to

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like an aunt

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and then the aunt told her oh well then

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you must be

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so and so's right daughter and next

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thing you know

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i think i think i've narrowed it down to

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the island i mean i i think i've

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narrowed it down to the to the family

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tree

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to the line uh you know sandy is often a

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nickname for alexander

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um you know and i found some good and

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some bad as far as that goes

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but uh it's not my it's not my forte

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yeah

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i'm a builder i don't to do this all the

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the searching and digging is uh

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and financially it's just not in the

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cars right now to you know to pay a

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private investigator

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to do that and i know in the book you

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write that your adopted parents

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were not the warmest no no

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which which is kind of surprising

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because it's like

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why did why did you go through the

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trouble of adopting

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two children two babies if you weren't

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going to be

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loving them with all of your heart gotta

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round out that picture that that

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protestant white picket fence in

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suburbia

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and and apparently they paid quite a bit

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of money for the two blonde haired

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blue-eyed babies and

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i just recently literally maybe six

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weeks ago found out that

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i wasn't even wanted they tried

282
00:09:49,829 --> 00:09:47,440
desperately not to adopt me

283
00:09:51,190 --> 00:09:49,839
but the adoption agency would not uh let

284
00:09:53,430 --> 00:09:51,200
them adopt my sister without

285
00:09:54,870 --> 00:09:53,440
adopting me even though we were not from

286
00:09:56,150 --> 00:09:54,880
the same families which doesn't make a

287
00:09:58,630 --> 00:09:56,160
lot of sense to me

288
00:10:00,949 --> 00:09:58,640
but yeah i was i was the that was the

289
00:10:04,069 --> 00:10:00,959
throw in

290
00:10:07,110 --> 00:10:04,079
so to say okay then tell us

291
00:10:07,430 --> 00:10:07,120
uh about what happened in the boy scouts

292
00:10:12,949 --> 00:10:07,440
and

293
00:10:15,670 --> 00:10:12,959
story because we're hearing

294
00:10:17,269 --> 00:10:15,680
more and more more and more lawsuits

295
00:10:19,829 --> 00:10:17,279
against the boy scouts

296
00:10:21,430 --> 00:10:19,839
uh first it was the catholic church that

297
00:10:24,470 --> 00:10:21,440
got hit with all this

298
00:10:26,310 --> 00:10:24,480
and then it kind of just hate to say it

299
00:10:27,030 --> 00:10:26,320
but it kind of is not surprising that

300
00:10:31,509 --> 00:10:27,040
you would

301
00:10:34,389 --> 00:10:31,519
similar thing in the boy scouts

302
00:10:35,430 --> 00:10:34,399
so um why don't we start with what

303
00:10:37,350 --> 00:10:35,440
happened to you

304
00:10:38,630 --> 00:10:37,360
and then then we'll talk about that ring

305
00:10:39,990 --> 00:10:38,640
that you're talking about that was going

306
00:10:41,670 --> 00:10:40,000
on

307
00:10:44,949 --> 00:10:41,680
well the abuse started at about six

308
00:10:51,670 --> 00:10:49,350
fairly what i would call innocently um

309
00:10:53,910 --> 00:10:51,680
and and and quickly grew into and

310
00:10:57,509 --> 00:10:53,920
continued to grow into some very violent

311
00:11:00,470 --> 00:10:57,519
uh drug-riddled uh behaviors there was

312
00:11:02,710 --> 00:11:00,480
uh they were they were of some form of

313
00:11:03,670 --> 00:11:02,720
satanic cult there was ritual stuff that

314
00:11:06,389 --> 00:11:03,680
was going on

315
00:11:07,350 --> 00:11:06,399
uh it was it was it was sick twisted

316
00:11:09,829 --> 00:11:07,360
stuff

317
00:11:10,550 --> 00:11:09,839
uh even looking back now did this

318
00:11:13,030 --> 00:11:10,560
involve

319
00:11:14,230 --> 00:11:13,040
just one scout master or more than one

320
00:11:16,870 --> 00:11:14,240
there was more than one

321
00:11:17,750 --> 00:11:16,880
um unfortunately only one was able to be

322
00:11:19,509 --> 00:11:17,760
brought down

323
00:11:20,870 --> 00:11:19,519
uh there's there's a couple out there

324
00:11:22,230 --> 00:11:20,880
that are still walking the streets right

325
00:11:26,069 --> 00:11:22,240
now that i

326
00:11:27,750 --> 00:11:26,079
i i wish weren't but um it was it was it

327
00:11:29,190 --> 00:11:27,760
was it was certainly more than one it

328
00:11:31,509 --> 00:11:29,200
was

329
00:11:32,389 --> 00:11:31,519
more than one that that you had a

330
00:11:36,550 --> 00:11:32,399
personal

331
00:11:39,430 --> 00:11:36,560
abused by four

332
00:11:40,710 --> 00:11:39,440
and was it always one-on-one or was

333
00:11:42,470 --> 00:11:40,720
there sometimes a group

334
00:11:44,550 --> 00:11:42,480
setting no there were there were groups

335
00:11:47,910 --> 00:11:44,560
groups of children groups of adults

336
00:11:49,590 --> 00:11:47,920
groups of them um sometimes one-on-one

337
00:11:50,230 --> 00:11:49,600
it was there was no rhyme or reason to

338
00:11:59,350 --> 00:11:50,240
it

339
00:12:01,910 --> 00:11:59,360
yeah you know i don't know there was a

340
00:12:03,350 --> 00:12:01,920
lot of a lot of fake weaponry there was

341
00:12:05,910 --> 00:12:03,360
a lot of fake blood

342
00:12:07,430 --> 00:12:05,920
um there you know there was altars there

343
00:12:10,550 --> 00:12:07,440
was candles lit

344
00:12:12,069 --> 00:12:10,560
um yeah you know as a child you don't

345
00:12:13,750 --> 00:12:12,079
understand any of this but that's that's

346
00:12:14,629 --> 00:12:13,760
the best i could equate to what must

347
00:12:16,230 --> 00:12:14,639
have been going on

348
00:12:17,910 --> 00:12:16,240
i don't you know i don't and and and

349
00:12:20,310 --> 00:12:17,920
this level of depravity and sickness

350
00:12:22,389 --> 00:12:20,320
that these guys carried was

351
00:12:24,150 --> 00:12:22,399
i i mean i just i just can't equate to

352
00:12:28,470 --> 00:12:24,160
it and

353
00:12:31,110 --> 00:12:28,480
uh one of them is in prison as we speak

354
00:12:33,990 --> 00:12:31,120
one of them was in prison uh and and

355
00:12:37,190 --> 00:12:34,000
prison no he died there

356
00:12:38,949 --> 00:12:37,200
and that's one of the adults scout

357
00:12:40,949 --> 00:12:38,959
masters that abused you

358
00:12:42,550 --> 00:12:40,959
yes he was that he was the main i would

359
00:12:45,030 --> 00:12:42,560
call him lead abuser

360
00:12:46,470 --> 00:12:45,040
his name did you did you testify in his

361
00:12:48,389 --> 00:12:46,480
case

362
00:12:50,550 --> 00:12:48,399
none of us had to testify i was able to

363
00:12:51,350 --> 00:12:50,560
get out of the the abuse situation when

364
00:12:54,870 --> 00:12:51,360
i was about

365
00:12:55,590 --> 00:12:54,880
11 and a half i went on the street

366
00:12:58,150 --> 00:12:55,600
bought a gun

367
00:12:59,590 --> 00:12:58,160
and when he came to pick me up one day i

368
00:13:01,269 --> 00:12:59,600
put that gun to his head and told him if

369
00:13:02,069 --> 00:13:01,279
he came near me again that i would kill

370
00:13:05,190 --> 00:13:02,079
him

371
00:13:07,030 --> 00:13:05,200
and at the time i meant it and that was

372
00:13:08,710 --> 00:13:07,040
the last i ever saw of him but

373
00:13:10,470 --> 00:13:08,720
it didn't come out till i was about 16

374
00:13:13,509 --> 00:13:10,480
years old and in high school

375
00:13:16,389 --> 00:13:13,519
uh where a a young boy did go home and

376
00:13:19,110 --> 00:13:16,399
an incredibly pray boy and did tell his

377
00:13:21,350 --> 00:13:19,120
folks what was going on because we were

378
00:13:22,629 --> 00:13:21,360
we were we were made to to fear for our

379
00:13:24,310 --> 00:13:22,639
lives we were made to fear for our

380
00:13:25,829 --> 00:13:24,320
families lives we were told our families

381
00:13:27,030 --> 00:13:25,839
would be killed our sisters our brothers

382
00:13:31,350 --> 00:13:27,040
would be killed

383
00:13:33,509 --> 00:13:31,360
from six years old on

384
00:13:35,110 --> 00:13:33,519
you you believe that and you know in the

385
00:13:36,629 --> 00:13:35,120
physical violence that was involved in

386
00:13:38,550 --> 00:13:36,639
the abuse and everything else it

387
00:13:40,790 --> 00:13:38,560
uh there was no doubt in my mind that if

388
00:13:42,790 --> 00:13:40,800
i even remotely

389
00:13:44,069 --> 00:13:42,800
whispered anything about this that i

390
00:13:45,829 --> 00:13:44,079
would i would die

391
00:13:49,269 --> 00:13:45,839
and how many children were involved

392
00:13:51,910 --> 00:13:49,279
while at least that you saw personally

393
00:13:52,790 --> 00:13:51,920
they tracked the abuse back about 30

394
00:13:54,870 --> 00:13:52,800
years so

395
00:13:57,110 --> 00:13:54,880
i don't i don't know what a total number

396
00:13:59,829 --> 00:13:57,120
is i can tell you that there was

397
00:14:02,150 --> 00:13:59,839
eight or ten of us over this from the

398
00:14:04,710 --> 00:14:02,160
period that i was abused

399
00:14:06,790 --> 00:14:04,720
that were pretty regular victims and it

400
00:14:07,829 --> 00:14:06,800
was always with scout masters not with

401
00:14:11,189 --> 00:14:07,839
others

402
00:14:11,670 --> 00:14:11,199
uh always someone involved in scouting

403
00:14:13,750 --> 00:14:11,680
up not

404
00:14:15,430 --> 00:14:13,760
scope masters per se but some of them

405
00:14:16,949 --> 00:14:15,440
were in the in the corporate office some

406
00:14:18,310 --> 00:14:16,959
of them were

407
00:14:19,990 --> 00:14:18,320
there sometimes there were women brought

408
00:14:23,189 --> 00:14:20,000
into the abuse who were

409
00:14:24,069 --> 00:14:23,199
girlfriends in my my case of of the main

410
00:14:27,750 --> 00:14:24,079
abuser for me

411
00:14:28,150 --> 00:14:27,760
larry um but yeah they're predominantly

412
00:14:31,910 --> 00:14:28,160
every

413
00:14:38,150 --> 00:14:35,269
and did you report it to your parents

414
00:14:39,509 --> 00:14:38,160
i tried to in the very beginning in in

415
00:14:42,629 --> 00:14:39,519
the in a way that i

416
00:14:43,990 --> 00:14:42,639
thought you know pleased after the very

417
00:14:46,389 --> 00:14:44,000
first instance of abuse

418
00:14:47,910 --> 00:14:46,399
you know at six um he can't he called

419
00:14:48,550 --> 00:14:47,920
again and wanted to come and get me and

420
00:15:37,269 --> 00:14:48,560
i

421
00:15:39,509 --> 00:15:37,279
you

422
00:15:41,590 --> 00:15:39,519
well i couldn't even begin to count from

423
00:15:44,470 --> 00:15:41,600
6 to 11 and a half it was sometimes

424
00:15:47,110 --> 00:15:44,480
it was two three times a week so it

425
00:15:48,949 --> 00:15:47,120
numerous numerous numerous it was

426
00:15:51,350 --> 00:15:48,959
and it was so it wasn't just when you

427
00:15:54,470 --> 00:15:51,360
would go away on some type of a

428
00:15:55,030 --> 00:15:54,480
camping retreat you know larry was also

429
00:15:57,430 --> 00:15:55,040
he was the

430
00:15:58,389 --> 00:15:57,440
uh what you'd call the pillar of the

431
00:16:00,310 --> 00:15:58,399
community he was

432
00:16:02,150 --> 00:16:00,320
he was school teacher he was high up in

433
00:16:04,470 --> 00:16:02,160
the ranks of not only

434
00:16:05,590 --> 00:16:04,480
the scouting office but of you know of a

435
00:16:08,470 --> 00:16:05,600
troop leader himself

436
00:16:08,870 --> 00:16:08,480
he was he was the chief police chief of

437
00:16:10,790 --> 00:16:08,880
the

438
00:16:12,550 --> 00:16:10,800
auxiliary fire department he was a

439
00:16:14,230 --> 00:16:12,560
photographer for a local paper he was my

440
00:16:16,230 --> 00:16:14,240
soccer coach he would

441
00:16:18,710 --> 00:16:16,240
he ingrained himself and engrossed

442
00:16:21,110 --> 00:16:18,720
himself into anything that he could

443
00:16:23,269 --> 00:16:21,120
to stay connected to to the boys he

444
00:16:26,710 --> 00:16:23,279
would have wanted to abuse

445
00:16:29,350 --> 00:16:26,720
and it baffles me still what's left

446
00:16:33,990 --> 00:16:29,360
last name his name is brio larry brio

447
00:16:37,910 --> 00:16:36,069
and he's the one who went to prison for

448
00:16:39,189 --> 00:16:37,920
how how many years was he going to be in

449
00:16:40,949 --> 00:16:39,199
there for life

450
00:16:42,470 --> 00:16:40,959
he was in very very poor health he had

451
00:16:44,870 --> 00:16:42,480
had a couple of heart attacks before

452
00:16:46,870 --> 00:16:44,880
he was getting ready to go to trial they

453
00:16:49,590 --> 00:16:46,880
desperately wanted to spare all of us

454
00:16:51,670 --> 00:16:49,600
having to take the stand and he was

455
00:16:53,749 --> 00:16:51,680
willing to take a 15-year sentence

456
00:16:55,509 --> 00:16:53,759
which they knew he would never complete

457
00:16:58,310 --> 00:16:55,519
um and how old was he

458
00:16:59,749 --> 00:16:58,320
by the time he went to jail oh boy i

459
00:17:06,549 --> 00:16:59,759
would

460
00:17:09,590 --> 00:17:06,559
50s maybe late 50s and what what year

461
00:17:12,630 --> 00:17:11,270
i was a senior i believe in high school

462
00:17:14,309 --> 00:17:12,640
when it went or junior in high school

463
00:17:18,710 --> 00:17:14,319
when it came out so it would have been

464
00:17:20,870 --> 00:17:18,720
85-ish 1985.

465
00:17:22,309 --> 00:17:20,880
and you believe he had been doing this

466
00:17:26,069 --> 00:17:22,319
for

467
00:17:28,390 --> 00:17:26,079
decades 30 somewhat 30-some odd years

468
00:17:29,750 --> 00:17:28,400
he had safes in his what we called the

469
00:17:31,110 --> 00:17:29,760
darkroom

470
00:17:32,710 --> 00:17:31,120
uh which incidentally is going to be the

471
00:17:34,070 --> 00:17:32,720
new title of the book when when it comes

472
00:17:35,190 --> 00:17:34,080
out it's the darkest room when it comes

473
00:17:37,590 --> 00:17:35,200
back out but

474
00:17:38,789 --> 00:17:37,600
uh he had a series of safes and he and

475
00:17:41,190 --> 00:17:38,799
that's how they were able

476
00:17:42,630 --> 00:17:41,200
that's how they identified us uh that

477
00:17:43,830 --> 00:17:42,640
the current members in the community the

478
00:17:45,590 --> 00:17:43,840
current boys in the community

479
00:17:47,350 --> 00:17:45,600
through all of the pornography that he

480
00:17:50,310 --> 00:17:47,360
had in these safes but as they

481
00:17:51,110 --> 00:17:50,320
dug they they literally went back about

482
00:17:52,630 --> 00:17:51,120
30 years

483
00:17:54,630 --> 00:17:52,640
and were able so you're talking about a

484
00:17:56,630 --> 00:17:54,640
safe that's in his house

485
00:17:57,830 --> 00:17:56,640
safe he had a lot of the abuse took

486
00:17:59,270 --> 00:17:57,840
place he as i said he was the

487
00:18:02,710 --> 00:17:59,280
photographer for the local paper

488
00:18:04,950 --> 00:18:02,720
he had i would say probably

489
00:18:06,870 --> 00:18:04,960
12 14 feet of countertop where a lot of

490
00:18:08,150 --> 00:18:06,880
the chemical trays and whatnot and the

491
00:18:11,909 --> 00:18:08,160
process took place

492
00:18:13,990 --> 00:18:11,919
and underneath that were just cube safes

493
00:18:15,110 --> 00:18:14,000
and uh okay so this is in it you're

494
00:18:17,029 --> 00:18:15,120
saying this is in a dark

495
00:18:19,510 --> 00:18:17,039
room for photography and within the dark

496
00:18:22,230 --> 00:18:19,520
room or large safes that he kept

497
00:18:22,950 --> 00:18:22,240
pornography in correct yep and is this

498
00:18:25,430 --> 00:18:22,960
these are

499
00:18:26,470 --> 00:18:25,440
is this pornography that he himself

500
00:18:28,630 --> 00:18:26,480
created

501
00:18:30,870 --> 00:18:28,640
correct yeah or he and the group we'll

502
00:18:34,310 --> 00:18:30,880
call it the group but yes pictures

503
00:18:35,350 --> 00:18:34,320
pictures videos do you think that they

504
00:18:37,990 --> 00:18:35,360
sold it

505
00:18:39,190 --> 00:18:38,000
they did uh so that was part of what he

506
00:18:42,470 --> 00:18:39,200
was convicted

507
00:18:42,789 --> 00:18:42,480
of yes yeah they were they were selling

508
00:18:46,549 --> 00:18:42,799
to

509
00:18:49,750 --> 00:18:46,559
whatever black market was out there but

510
00:18:50,390 --> 00:18:49,760
um other than him none of the other

511
00:18:53,190 --> 00:18:50,400
people

512
00:18:53,590 --> 00:18:53,200
were ever convicted he he was the only

513
00:18:57,190 --> 00:18:53,600
one

514
00:18:58,630 --> 00:18:57,200
who was they actually had in films and

515
00:19:01,270 --> 00:18:58,640
footage in pictures

516
00:19:02,789 --> 00:19:01,280
um the other members were in pictures

517
00:19:04,470 --> 00:19:02,799
but they weren't

518
00:19:06,390 --> 00:19:04,480
it wasn't of the pornography type it'd

519
00:19:08,390 --> 00:19:06,400
be with your your arm around

520
00:19:10,310 --> 00:19:08,400
someone or at a scout function or

521
00:19:13,270 --> 00:19:10,320
something along those lines but

522
00:19:14,950 --> 00:19:13,280
uh larry didn't have a problem being in

523
00:19:15,190 --> 00:19:14,960
these films and being in these pictures

524
00:19:20,310 --> 00:19:15,200
and

525
00:19:22,310 --> 00:19:20,320
you said there's a woman he would bring

526
00:19:23,669 --> 00:19:22,320
in was that his wife or girlfriend

527
00:19:26,070 --> 00:19:23,679
it was a girlfriend at the time i

528
00:19:29,110 --> 00:19:26,080
believe i i think i know who it was i

529
00:19:31,510 --> 00:19:29,120
i can't be 100 sure but i'm i'm 80 sure

530
00:19:34,789 --> 00:19:31,520
that i know who it was

531
00:19:37,750 --> 00:19:34,799
um and what about the children i mean

532
00:19:39,190 --> 00:19:37,760
why aren't if you've come forward and

533
00:19:40,789 --> 00:19:39,200
some other children have come forward

534
00:19:44,710 --> 00:19:40,799
why isn't that enough

535
00:19:47,909 --> 00:19:44,720
to get any of these other guys in jail

536
00:19:49,590 --> 00:19:47,919
uh i i don't

537
00:19:51,350 --> 00:19:49,600
i don't know i really don't know i i

538
00:19:52,070 --> 00:19:51,360
don't it hasn't been it hasn't been

539
00:19:54,789 --> 00:19:52,080
pushed in

540
00:19:56,390 --> 00:19:54,799
in the legal arena i you know i don't

541
00:19:59,990 --> 00:19:56,400
have a problem talking about laurent

542
00:20:03,750 --> 00:20:00,000
uh um uh of course i'm having a

543
00:20:04,310 --> 00:20:03,760
uh brandon uh bob what's his name bob

544
00:20:07,430 --> 00:20:04,320
bourbon

545
00:20:08,630 --> 00:20:07,440
bob berman um steve perry who is dead

546
00:20:11,510 --> 00:20:08,640
now

547
00:20:12,789 --> 00:20:11,520
um two very big players in all of it

548
00:20:14,149 --> 00:20:12,799
bill berman is

549
00:20:16,789 --> 00:20:14,159
is driving a school bus up in new

550
00:20:20,070 --> 00:20:16,799
hampshire and is a is a

551
00:20:21,830 --> 00:20:20,080
i mean incredibly sick twisted

552
00:20:23,590 --> 00:20:21,840
i mean it it takes it takes everything i

553
00:20:25,270 --> 00:20:23,600
have not to learn some of my skill set

554
00:20:26,149 --> 00:20:25,280
that i that i learned with the irish and

555
00:20:29,510 --> 00:20:26,159
to

556
00:20:32,789 --> 00:20:29,520
hands but um

557
00:20:35,350 --> 00:20:32,799
so sorry it's bill berman berman

558
00:20:36,149 --> 00:20:35,360
bill berman and he's driving a bus right

559
00:20:37,669 --> 00:20:36,159
now

560
00:20:39,750 --> 00:20:37,679
for what a friend of mine who lives up

561
00:20:40,070 --> 00:20:39,760
in new hampshire from high school told

562
00:20:42,390 --> 00:20:40,080
me

563
00:20:43,270 --> 00:20:42,400
uh that he was driving a school bus up

564
00:20:48,230 --> 00:20:43,280
in new hampshire

565
00:20:50,310 --> 00:20:48,240
and i 100 believe what nicky told me

566
00:20:51,909 --> 00:20:50,320
and he would be what in the 70s or

567
00:20:55,830 --> 00:20:51,919
something

568
00:20:59,110 --> 00:20:55,840
i would s i would say late 70s yeah he

569
00:21:00,870 --> 00:20:59,120
he was he was younger than larry was

570
00:21:02,149 --> 00:21:00,880
and steve perry was about larry's age

571
00:21:05,750 --> 00:21:02,159
maybe a little older and he's

572
00:21:08,230 --> 00:21:05,760
he's dead um okay there's those three

573
00:21:11,830 --> 00:21:10,950
uh some of the other ones that were

574
00:21:13,350 --> 00:21:11,840
sporadic

575
00:21:15,190 --> 00:21:13,360
and i they were they were they were

576
00:21:17,909 --> 00:21:15,200
higher up members of the

577
00:21:18,390 --> 00:21:17,919
the scouting office uh this they had a

578
00:21:19,830 --> 00:21:18,400
very

579
00:21:21,430 --> 00:21:19,840
the scouting headquarters was just the

580
00:21:23,430 --> 00:21:21,440
town of massachusetts

581
00:21:25,110 --> 00:21:23,440
and they were they i believe were out of

582
00:21:27,750 --> 00:21:25,120
that office

583
00:21:28,870 --> 00:21:27,760
and uh we you know they would pop in one

584
00:21:30,070 --> 00:21:28,880
month and you wouldn't see them for

585
00:21:32,390 --> 00:21:30,080
another month or two

586
00:21:34,789 --> 00:21:32,400
and it was very sporadic i i don't i

587
00:21:37,909 --> 00:21:34,799
didn't get to know their names

588
00:21:41,029 --> 00:21:37,919
and is there anyone else who was

589
00:21:45,029 --> 00:21:41,039
put in jail over this nope not

590
00:21:46,870 --> 00:21:45,039
not a soul and so going back to bill

591
00:21:48,549 --> 00:21:46,880
berman i mean um

592
00:21:50,710 --> 00:21:48,559
do you have any intention of doing

593
00:21:53,190 --> 00:21:50,720
anything regarding this guy i mean

594
00:21:54,470 --> 00:21:53,200
are you gonna i'll i'll respectfully

595
00:21:56,230 --> 00:21:54,480
decline to answer that question out of

596
00:21:58,710 --> 00:21:56,240
my fifth amendment right

597
00:22:00,630 --> 00:21:58,720
i i you know i i wouldn't i do do i want

598
00:22:03,190 --> 00:22:00,640
to on a daily basis of course i do

599
00:22:04,470 --> 00:22:03,200
of course i do i i i i it sickens me

600
00:22:07,510 --> 00:22:04,480
that that he might be

601
00:22:09,190 --> 00:22:07,520
injuring a child out there i mean do you

602
00:22:12,149 --> 00:22:09,200
think he's so capable of it today

603
00:22:12,870 --> 00:22:12,159
absolutely absolutely no doubt in my

604
00:22:15,669 --> 00:22:12,880
mind

605
00:22:18,230 --> 00:22:15,679
he was that he was an alcoholic drunk

606
00:22:21,590 --> 00:22:18,240
twisted pedophile

607
00:22:24,630 --> 00:22:21,600
that that doesn't change are there other

608
00:22:30,470 --> 00:22:24,640
um boys from

609
00:22:35,350 --> 00:22:33,669
uh quite a few have taken their lives um

610
00:22:37,029 --> 00:22:35,360
and the the few of us that are left uh

611
00:22:41,350 --> 00:22:37,039
yeah i do i communicate with them

612
00:22:43,510 --> 00:22:41,360
almost regularly well

613
00:22:45,350 --> 00:22:43,520
anyway sure would be nice to put bill

614
00:22:49,190 --> 00:22:45,360
berman behind bars especially

615
00:22:50,950 --> 00:22:49,200
um i i think that the um

616
00:22:52,710 --> 00:22:50,960
statute of limitations because of the

617
00:22:54,230 --> 00:22:52,720
catholic church cases and so on in most

618
00:22:55,909 --> 00:22:54,240
states they've really

619
00:22:57,750 --> 00:22:55,919
extended the statute of limitations when

620
00:22:58,149 --> 00:22:57,760
it comes to it because i went from seven

621
00:23:02,390 --> 00:22:58,159
to

622
00:23:03,510 --> 00:23:02,400
years so a lot of a lot of people would

623
00:23:05,029 --> 00:23:03,520
still be within their stature

624
00:23:08,470 --> 00:23:05,039
limitations and

625
00:23:09,029 --> 00:23:08,480
um i i i think well i i would even still

626
00:23:11,430 --> 00:23:09,039
be in this

627
00:23:13,669 --> 00:23:11,440
within my stature limitations i'd prefer

628
00:23:15,430 --> 00:23:13,679
to handle it myself if they'd let me but

629
00:23:18,230 --> 00:23:15,440
yeah well you said that that that larry

630
00:23:20,950 --> 00:23:18,240
went to to jail around 85

631
00:23:22,549 --> 00:23:20,960
1985 so that means the abuse took place

632
00:23:24,549 --> 00:23:22,559
prior to that

633
00:23:25,830 --> 00:23:24,559
so that would be outside the 30 years

634
00:23:26,470 --> 00:23:25,840
would it be let's see yeah it would have

635
00:23:31,110 --> 00:23:26,480
been

636
00:23:32,870 --> 00:23:31,120
six so 74ish to

637
00:23:34,950 --> 00:23:32,880
yeah yeah that'd be outside i mean it

638
00:23:37,190 --> 00:23:34,960
would it would have to be after 1990

639
00:23:38,230 --> 00:23:37,200
right yeah at least as it pertains to

640
00:23:41,190 --> 00:23:38,240
you

641
00:23:42,470 --> 00:23:41,200
um which i assume none of it was more

642
00:23:46,470 --> 00:23:42,480
recent than that

643
00:23:47,110 --> 00:23:46,480
no yeah so instead but instead your only

644
00:23:49,990 --> 00:23:47,120
option is

645
00:23:51,830 --> 00:23:50,000
is vigilante because apparently if it's

646
00:23:54,789 --> 00:23:51,840
30 years in massachusetts

647
00:23:55,269 --> 00:23:54,799
then it is it is a very good friend of

648
00:23:56,950 --> 00:23:55,279
mine was

649
00:23:59,350 --> 00:23:56,960
was instrumental and actually got that

650
00:24:01,269 --> 00:23:59,360
bill passed kathy picard

651
00:24:03,269 --> 00:24:01,279
i wonder what it is in some other states

652
00:24:05,350 --> 00:24:03,279
because

653
00:24:06,470 --> 00:24:05,360
i think almost all other than two states

654
00:24:08,630 --> 00:24:06,480
have gone to

655
00:24:09,669 --> 00:24:08,640
to the catholic church really yeah

656
00:24:12,230 --> 00:24:09,679
that's what i mean i could also

657
00:24:14,310 --> 00:24:12,240
almost see it it there being no statute

658
00:24:16,710 --> 00:24:14,320
of limitations because it is so

659
00:24:17,510 --> 00:24:16,720
difficult for a child you know when a

660
00:24:20,549 --> 00:24:17,520
child

661
00:24:23,350 --> 00:24:20,559
finally processes that and

662
00:24:24,310 --> 00:24:23,360
and then is comfortable coming forward

663
00:24:27,190 --> 00:24:24,320
um

664
00:24:28,230 --> 00:24:27,200
you know i don't think any of us i don't

665
00:24:30,149 --> 00:24:28,240
think there should be any

666
00:24:31,510 --> 00:24:30,159
limitations yeah i mean you know maybe

667
00:24:34,549 --> 00:24:31,520
it's gonna be harder to prove

668
00:24:36,390 --> 00:24:34,559
the longer that you wait and and so on

669
00:24:39,190 --> 00:24:36,400
but

670
00:24:40,870 --> 00:24:39,200
a lot it sometimes takes decades for for

671
00:24:43,430 --> 00:24:40,880
abuse victims to to really

672
00:24:45,269 --> 00:24:43,440
get the full gist of what's happened to

673
00:24:46,470 --> 00:24:45,279
them and to really start to feel the

674
00:24:48,870 --> 00:24:46,480
effects of it

675
00:24:50,310 --> 00:24:48,880
so uh larry the guy that did go to jail

676
00:24:51,510 --> 00:24:50,320
and you said was basically the ring

677
00:24:54,630 --> 00:24:51,520
leader

678
00:24:56,390 --> 00:24:54,640
um if you if you just

679
00:24:58,789 --> 00:24:56,400
knew the guy casually you were one of

680
00:25:00,870 --> 00:24:58,799
his students you played on a soccer team

681
00:25:02,390 --> 00:25:00,880
you were a parent or whatever was there

682
00:25:04,070 --> 00:25:02,400
looking back on it was there anything

683
00:25:05,830 --> 00:25:04,080
that should have been a giveaway to to

684
00:25:07,590 --> 00:25:05,840
other people or was he truly somebody

685
00:25:08,230 --> 00:25:07,600
who was a pillar in the community and

686
00:25:12,310 --> 00:25:08,240
you would have

687
00:25:16,789 --> 00:25:12,320
no idea to me the the entire situation

688
00:25:19,830 --> 00:25:16,799
it baffles me that that adults did not

689
00:25:20,789 --> 00:25:19,840
see what was going on and and see that a

690
00:25:23,830 --> 00:25:20,799
single

691
00:25:25,350 --> 00:25:23,840
unwed man spending all of his time with

692
00:25:28,390 --> 00:25:25,360
young boys

693
00:25:30,310 --> 00:25:28,400
uh or the majority this would

694
00:25:32,630 --> 00:25:30,320
this in today's climate this would ring

695
00:25:33,190 --> 00:25:32,640
so many bells and red flags going up

696
00:25:36,070 --> 00:25:33,200
that

697
00:25:37,750 --> 00:25:36,080
you know i just i don't i don't know how

698
00:25:38,870 --> 00:25:37,760
it went on for as long as it did i don't

699
00:25:41,430 --> 00:25:38,880
know how

700
00:25:43,110 --> 00:25:41,440
i think the man was just such a

701
00:25:47,110 --> 00:25:43,120
sociopathic

702
00:25:50,230 --> 00:25:47,120
deviant manipulative man that

703
00:25:52,390 --> 00:25:50,240
he he people really revered him

704
00:25:54,390 --> 00:25:52,400
i mean even after the there were there

705
00:25:55,830 --> 00:25:54,400
were rallies after he was arrested and

706
00:25:57,750 --> 00:25:55,840
after the abuse came to light and the

707
00:25:59,269 --> 00:25:57,760
pictures were known to exist

708
00:26:01,029 --> 00:25:59,279
they were rallying at the head of the

709
00:26:02,950 --> 00:26:01,039
lake in the commons

710
00:26:05,430 --> 00:26:02,960
for his release and that he was innocent

711
00:26:08,630 --> 00:26:05,440
and he had a lot of people just

712
00:26:10,070 --> 00:26:08,640
snowed i don't oh

713
00:26:12,630 --> 00:26:10,080
i don't i don't even know what the word

714
00:26:16,149 --> 00:26:12,640
would be but

715
00:26:17,990 --> 00:26:16,159
so if you're a parent and considering

716
00:26:19,350 --> 00:26:18,000
putting your child in the boy scouts

717
00:26:22,549 --> 00:26:19,360
today

718
00:26:25,029 --> 00:26:22,559
uh what is your advice to them

719
00:26:26,870 --> 00:26:25,039
uh think twice the boy scouts knew they

720
00:26:27,750 --> 00:26:26,880
had information about larry brio and

721
00:26:30,149 --> 00:26:27,760
what he was doing

722
00:26:32,870 --> 00:26:30,159
and chose to do nothing about it they to

723
00:26:36,310 --> 00:26:32,880
me are as guilty if not more

724
00:26:38,149 --> 00:26:36,320
so than than larry brielle

725
00:26:40,390 --> 00:26:38,159
we have documents in our possession that

726
00:26:42,870 --> 00:26:40,400
that show that they knew

727
00:26:44,310 --> 00:26:42,880
and who are some of those people and are

728
00:26:47,430 --> 00:26:44,320
they still around

729
00:26:49,029 --> 00:26:47,440
the the the these these are uh members

730
00:26:51,269 --> 00:26:49,039
higher up members in the in the scouting

731
00:26:52,950 --> 00:26:51,279
organization the corporate offices

732
00:26:54,149 --> 00:26:52,960
i mean do you i don't i don't i don't

733
00:26:55,909 --> 00:26:54,159
have the documents in front of me my

734
00:26:58,230 --> 00:26:55,919
attorneys have them but uh

735
00:26:59,990 --> 00:26:58,240
yeah we do have we do i filed a suit

736
00:27:01,430 --> 00:27:00,000
before all of this in 2000 i believe it

737
00:27:03,590 --> 00:27:01,440
was six

738
00:27:05,190 --> 00:27:03,600
um before all the class action suit and

739
00:27:07,190 --> 00:27:05,200
everything out and mine was thrown out

740
00:27:08,630 --> 00:27:07,200
for statue of limitations because it was

741
00:27:09,830 --> 00:27:08,640
for it was before the the catholic

742
00:27:13,029 --> 00:27:09,840
church got those laws

743
00:27:14,630 --> 00:27:13,039
uh changed once those laws changed it

744
00:27:17,750 --> 00:27:14,640
opened that door back up for me which is

745
00:27:20,230 --> 00:27:17,760
when my my suit reopened

746
00:27:21,909 --> 00:27:20,240
so you uh and what happened to your

747
00:27:23,750 --> 00:27:21,919
lawsuit

748
00:27:25,029 --> 00:27:23,760
uh back then it was it was dismissed on

749
00:27:27,029 --> 00:27:25,039
statute limitations right but then you

750
00:27:29,110 --> 00:27:27,039
said you were able to bring it again

751
00:27:30,870 --> 00:27:29,120
it's it's now yeah it's it's it's it's

752
00:27:32,710 --> 00:27:30,880
been reopened it's uh it's

753
00:27:34,610 --> 00:27:32,720
current it's in the court systems uh so

754
00:27:35,830 --> 00:27:34,620
i've got a soul

755
00:27:38,149 --> 00:27:35,840
[Music]

756
00:27:38,950 --> 00:27:38,159
soul lawsuit going on as well as being

757
00:27:41,909 --> 00:27:38,960
part of

758
00:27:44,870 --> 00:27:41,919
this class action as well but if there's

759
00:27:47,909 --> 00:27:44,880
a 30-year statute of limitations

760
00:27:49,110 --> 00:27:47,919
then how are you able to well that

761
00:27:52,389 --> 00:27:49,120
statute limitation

762
00:27:53,669 --> 00:27:52,399
starts when you realize the the effect

763
00:27:57,269 --> 00:27:53,679
that that abuse

764
00:28:00,310 --> 00:27:57,279
had had on you and a report was done

765
00:28:02,470 --> 00:28:00,320
for my sentencing uh when i was

766
00:28:03,350 --> 00:28:02,480
when all the irish mob stuff had come

767
00:28:06,870 --> 00:28:03,360
down and

768
00:28:08,470 --> 00:28:06,880
i was looking at a gargantuan years uh

769
00:28:09,990 --> 00:28:08,480
my attorneys brought in social workers

770
00:28:10,310 --> 00:28:10,000
when they found out what had happened to

771
00:28:11,750 --> 00:28:10,320
me

772
00:28:14,389 --> 00:28:11,760
uh because that was the big sticking

773
00:28:15,990 --> 00:28:14,399
point the judges couldn't you know

774
00:28:17,669 --> 00:28:16,000
how can we give this guy a deal how can

775
00:28:18,310 --> 00:28:17,679
we give him you know a reduced sentence

776
00:28:20,389 --> 00:28:18,320
when

777
00:28:22,630 --> 00:28:20,399
you know what this there's nothing

778
00:28:24,310 --> 00:28:22,640
there's nothing that justifies it

779
00:28:25,909 --> 00:28:24,320
and that's when the abuse came to light

780
00:28:28,710 --> 00:28:25,919
as far as my case back then

781
00:28:31,909 --> 00:28:28,720
and so it's when the abuse so my when

782
00:28:33,029 --> 00:28:31,919
that report was done in 91

783
00:28:35,350 --> 00:28:33,039
that's really where my statute

784
00:28:36,310 --> 00:28:35,360
limitation started gotcha even though

785
00:28:38,149 --> 00:28:36,320
the abuse had been

786
00:28:40,070 --> 00:28:38,159
quite a while before and then how is it

787
00:28:42,630 --> 00:28:40,080
that you're able to have your own case

788
00:28:44,389 --> 00:28:42,640
and also be part of a class action

789
00:28:45,830 --> 00:28:44,399
what's the difference between those two

790
00:28:47,430 --> 00:28:45,840
you know i don't know that's a question

791
00:28:48,470 --> 00:28:47,440
for the attorneys i guess i never even

792
00:28:50,230 --> 00:28:48,480
bothered to ask i know

793
00:28:51,510 --> 00:28:50,240
that by i mean i assume that's what it

794
00:28:54,149 --> 00:28:51,520
is i know my my

795
00:28:55,269 --> 00:28:54,159
case that that we had in the courts was

796
00:28:57,029 --> 00:28:55,279
reopened

797
00:28:58,389 --> 00:28:57,039
and i know that i've had to answer all

798
00:29:00,230 --> 00:28:58,399
of the paperwork that everybody else

799
00:29:03,269 --> 00:29:00,240
who's part of this class action

800
00:29:05,669 --> 00:29:03,279
has has had to um it is the class

801
00:29:07,990 --> 00:29:05,679
where is the class action um filed what

802
00:29:10,470 --> 00:29:08,000
what city

803
00:29:11,590 --> 00:29:10,480
you know i want to say it came out of

804
00:29:14,630 --> 00:29:11,600
new jersey somewhere

805
00:29:16,549 --> 00:29:14,640
is where it originated but again i uh

806
00:29:16,950 --> 00:29:16,559
quite quite frankly i don't give it much

807
00:29:20,710 --> 00:29:16,960
thought

808
00:29:22,470 --> 00:29:20,720
i really don't um i i don't i

809
00:29:24,070 --> 00:29:22,480
i'm letting the eternals handle it i let

810
00:29:25,430 --> 00:29:24,080
it play out i

811
00:29:27,269 --> 00:29:25,440
it's not it's not healthy and it's not

812
00:29:28,070 --> 00:29:27,279
beneficial to me to admire and that and

813
00:29:29,510 --> 00:29:28,080
that stuff

814
00:29:31,190 --> 00:29:29,520
and i've got you know so much other

815
00:29:34,710 --> 00:29:31,200
stuff going on that's

816
00:29:37,990 --> 00:29:34,720
that i'm barely able to hang on to uh

817
00:29:39,510 --> 00:29:38,000
you know it but a financial payfall be

818
00:29:41,909 --> 00:29:39,520
it would be well appreciated it would be

819
00:29:43,990 --> 00:29:41,919
great it would it would feel nice to

820
00:29:45,029 --> 00:29:44,000
feel like there was some justification

821
00:29:47,830 --> 00:29:45,039
and some

822
00:29:49,350 --> 00:29:47,840
what is your assessment you know is if

823
00:29:51,990 --> 00:29:49,360
you compare

824
00:29:52,470 --> 00:29:52,000
what was going on at the boy scouts to

825
00:29:54,389 --> 00:29:52,480
what

826
00:29:55,830 --> 00:29:54,399
was going on to the catholic church so

827
00:29:58,870 --> 00:29:55,840
you have priests

828
00:30:00,470 --> 00:29:58,880
with altar boys and you've got scout

829
00:30:03,510 --> 00:30:00,480
masters with

830
00:30:03,830 --> 00:30:03,520
boy scouts and cub scouts do you have

831
00:30:06,470 --> 00:30:03,840
any

832
00:30:07,909 --> 00:30:06,480
based on all the research you've done do

833
00:30:09,669 --> 00:30:07,919
you have any comparison between those

834
00:30:14,310 --> 00:30:09,679
two as to which one

835
00:30:18,789 --> 00:30:17,430
if i from what i know of the little i

836
00:30:21,110 --> 00:30:18,799
don't want to say little but from the

837
00:30:22,149 --> 00:30:21,120
the small amount that i know of of the

838
00:30:23,830 --> 00:30:22,159
catholic church and

839
00:30:25,830 --> 00:30:23,840
and some of the cases that i've seen or

840
00:30:28,070 --> 00:30:25,840
read or

841
00:30:29,830 --> 00:30:28,080
i would i would have to say that what i

842
00:30:33,190 --> 00:30:29,840
know of the boy scouts

843
00:30:34,950 --> 00:30:33,200
was quite a bit worse um but i know

844
00:30:37,350 --> 00:30:34,960
certainly your experience sounded uh

845
00:30:39,669 --> 00:30:37,360
horrendous i guess my question is how

846
00:30:41,750 --> 00:30:39,679
do we have any idea how widespread we

847
00:30:43,190 --> 00:30:41,760
think it is in the boy scouts versus uh

848
00:30:46,950 --> 00:30:43,200
catholic church

849
00:30:48,630 --> 00:30:46,960
um it it's it's nationwide with with

850
00:30:49,350 --> 00:30:48,640
both organizations maybe maybe a little

851
00:30:51,029 --> 00:30:49,360
more

852
00:30:52,630 --> 00:30:51,039
worldwide with the catholic church i

853
00:30:55,510 --> 00:30:52,640
mean it you know their their

854
00:30:56,950 --> 00:30:55,520
their wings spread a little further um i

855
00:30:58,310 --> 00:30:56,960
mean unfortunately today

856
00:30:59,990 --> 00:30:58,320
and maybe it's not today maybe this is

857
00:31:00,950 --> 00:31:00,000
always but now we're just realizing it

858
00:31:04,710 --> 00:31:00,960
but

859
00:31:06,630 --> 00:31:04,720
any time a man puts himself in a

860
00:31:10,950 --> 00:31:06,640
situation to have access to

861
00:31:12,710 --> 00:31:10,960
boys you have to

862
00:31:14,310 --> 00:31:12,720
scrutinize that just a little bit it's a

863
00:31:15,909 --> 00:31:14,320
horrible thing to say because

864
00:31:18,149 --> 00:31:15,919
i just think that's how it should yeah

865
00:31:20,149 --> 00:31:18,159
it's unfortunate just like there's

866
00:31:21,430 --> 00:31:20,159
and we know that you know 90 whatever

867
00:31:23,590 --> 00:31:21,440
percent are good

868
00:31:25,990 --> 00:31:23,600
and and the bad cops ruin it for the

869
00:31:28,070 --> 00:31:26,000
others the same

870
00:31:29,269 --> 00:31:28,080
yeah but the same is true when we talk

871
00:31:32,310 --> 00:31:29,279
about

872
00:31:33,350 --> 00:31:32,320
men who are who are coaches in our you

873
00:31:35,029 --> 00:31:33,360
know whether it be in

874
00:31:37,430 --> 00:31:35,039
little league coaches or whether it be

875
00:31:38,149 --> 00:31:37,440
teachers or whether it be scout masters

876
00:31:39,990 --> 00:31:38,159
or

877
00:31:41,190 --> 00:31:40,000
anything that puts them in the proximity

878
00:31:42,630 --> 00:31:41,200
of children

879
00:31:43,909 --> 00:31:42,640
um these are brave people because i'll

880
00:31:44,950 --> 00:31:43,919
tell you what you wouldn't catch me and

881
00:31:47,830 --> 00:31:44,960
i i

882
00:31:49,029 --> 00:31:47,840
it's to me you're you're setting

883
00:31:51,990 --> 00:31:49,039
yourself up for it's

884
00:31:52,549 --> 00:31:52,000
it's it's yeah you're scrutinized you're

885
00:31:54,310 --> 00:31:52,559
but but

886
00:31:55,430 --> 00:31:54,320
i'm also grateful to him that you know

887
00:31:57,430 --> 00:31:55,440
there are people out there willing to do

888
00:32:01,350 --> 00:31:57,440
it

889
00:32:05,110 --> 00:32:01,360
so tell us about what you think

890
00:32:07,430 --> 00:32:05,120
this abuse uh caused in you ultimately

891
00:32:08,549 --> 00:32:07,440
leading to addictions and a life of

892
00:32:11,269 --> 00:32:08,559
crime etc

893
00:32:12,070 --> 00:32:11,279
how do you connect those two well the

894
00:32:15,029 --> 00:32:12,080
biggest thing is

895
00:32:16,230 --> 00:32:15,039
is it uh it created an intense and

896
00:32:20,149 --> 00:32:16,240
deeply

897
00:32:23,350 --> 00:32:20,159
rooted anger uh i i had a

898
00:32:25,509 --> 00:32:23,360
i had an anger a rage against just

899
00:32:26,630 --> 00:32:25,519
the world in general uh for what had

900
00:32:29,269 --> 00:32:26,640
happened to me i

901
00:32:31,269 --> 00:32:29,279
i was i had a rage against adults for

902
00:32:34,549 --> 00:32:31,279
you know that they didn't stop it

903
00:32:38,470 --> 00:32:34,559
uh that people let this go on uh why

904
00:32:41,590 --> 00:32:38,480
let this happen to me um that and that

905
00:32:42,389 --> 00:32:41,600
there drove a lot of the behaviors that

906
00:32:44,070 --> 00:32:42,399
uh

907
00:32:45,830 --> 00:32:44,080
you know that really weren't who i was

908
00:32:49,110 --> 00:32:45,840
or you know who the core of me

909
00:32:50,710 --> 00:32:49,120
was um but you know that that led to

910
00:32:52,710 --> 00:32:50,720
to a lot of the addictions that led to a

911
00:32:53,830 --> 00:32:52,720
lot of the drug use that uh

912
00:33:01,029 --> 00:32:53,840
how much of it would you say was

913
00:33:01,039 --> 00:33:06,070
that's a tough question um

914
00:33:10,230 --> 00:33:07,909
looking back at it now i i would i would

915
00:33:12,549 --> 00:33:10,240
want to say a lot of it was conscience

916
00:33:13,509 --> 00:33:12,559
but i mean in other words you

917
00:33:15,909 --> 00:33:13,519
specifically

918
00:33:16,950 --> 00:33:15,919
were thinking to yourself you got a

919
00:33:19,110 --> 00:33:16,960
wrong deal

920
00:33:20,950 --> 00:33:19,120
yeah you were abused for many years your

921
00:33:23,350 --> 00:33:20,960
parents weren't there to support you

922
00:33:24,070 --> 00:33:23,360
and i'm pissed off about the whole thing

923
00:33:25,990 --> 00:33:24,080
at an older

924
00:33:27,590 --> 00:33:26,000
age at the end of you know the height

925
00:33:31,269 --> 00:33:27,600
the elementary school and

926
00:33:33,830 --> 00:33:31,279
and junior high and high school level

927
00:33:34,950 --> 00:33:33,840
it was i think it was i did my my mind

928
00:33:36,789 --> 00:33:34,960
did not know how to

929
00:33:37,990 --> 00:33:36,799
comprehend or deal with with the things

930
00:33:39,669 --> 00:33:38,000
that happening with things that were

931
00:33:41,430 --> 00:33:39,679
hurt were happening to me

932
00:33:43,990 --> 00:33:41,440
um and i think it was more of an

933
00:33:46,149 --> 00:33:44,000
unconscious at that point trying to to

934
00:33:47,830 --> 00:33:46,159
quash some of that stuff

935
00:33:49,590 --> 00:33:47,840
and that that did carry into adulthood

936
00:33:52,310 --> 00:33:49,600
too um but

937
00:33:53,269 --> 00:33:52,320
it but i think you know addiction takes

938
00:33:55,590 --> 00:33:53,279
over at some point

939
00:33:56,710 --> 00:33:55,600
and uh you know it's now it's more of a

940
00:33:58,470 --> 00:33:56,720
you know i need it

941
00:33:59,909 --> 00:33:58,480
and i i certainly don't want to feel any

942
00:34:00,950 --> 00:33:59,919
feelings so

943
00:34:03,350 --> 00:34:00,960
at that you know it's more of a

944
00:34:06,149 --> 00:34:03,360
conscious level at that point

945
00:34:09,349 --> 00:34:06,159
at what age did you start acting out

946
00:34:12,149 --> 00:34:09,359
whether it be with drugs or crime

947
00:34:12,710 --> 00:34:12,159
oh uh almost right out of the gate um

948
00:34:16,310 --> 00:34:12,720
you know

949
00:34:17,990 --> 00:34:16,320
around the classroom and the kids are

950
00:34:18,950 --> 00:34:18,000
coloring and i'm snoring cocaine on my

951
00:34:22,149 --> 00:34:18,960
desk

952
00:34:23,270 --> 00:34:22,159
um it was uh how did you get cocaine in

953
00:34:27,030 --> 00:34:23,280
fifth grade

954
00:34:28,950 --> 00:34:27,040
oh i was a resourceful little bugger

955
00:34:33,030 --> 00:34:28,960
i say the same way you get a gun at 11 i

956
00:34:37,190 --> 00:34:34,710
if i wanted something i i found a way to

957
00:34:41,270 --> 00:34:37,200
get it i hung out with a much older crew

958
00:34:41,829 --> 00:34:41,280
i uh um and and again do you relate that

959
00:34:44,230 --> 00:34:41,839
all to

960
00:34:45,349 --> 00:34:44,240
the abuse that was going on at the time

961
00:34:46,710 --> 00:34:45,359
that you were trying to

962
00:34:48,069 --> 00:34:46,720
in other words had the abuse not

963
00:34:49,430 --> 00:34:48,079
happened uh there would have been no

964
00:34:53,190 --> 00:34:49,440
cocaine

965
00:34:53,510 --> 00:34:53,200
um i'm sure they would have uh i'm you

966
00:34:55,990 --> 00:34:53,520
know

967
00:34:57,109 --> 00:34:56,000
as as is probably 80 of the rest of the

968
00:34:58,710 --> 00:34:57,119
world there would have been some

969
00:35:00,470 --> 00:34:58,720
experimental said whether you know i'm

970
00:35:03,990 --> 00:35:00,480
talking about fifth grade though

971
00:35:05,430 --> 00:35:04,000
oh hell no no no i don't

972
00:35:06,950 --> 00:35:05,440
there's a very small percentage of fifth

973
00:35:07,430 --> 00:35:06,960
graders ripping rails on their desk i

974
00:35:10,630 --> 00:35:07,440
think

975
00:35:11,670 --> 00:35:10,640
so um but yeah i mean it was it was

976
00:35:12,069 --> 00:35:11,680
anything at that point i just didn't

977
00:35:14,870 --> 00:35:12,079
want

978
00:35:15,589 --> 00:35:14,880
didn't know what i was feeling i didn't

979
00:35:18,710 --> 00:35:15,599
understand

980
00:35:21,270 --> 00:35:18,720
i knew these things made me numb and

981
00:35:22,310 --> 00:35:21,280
you know be a marijuana cocaine whatever

982
00:35:24,069 --> 00:35:22,320
right pills whatever

983
00:35:25,430 --> 00:35:24,079
alcohol whatever i could get my hands on

984
00:35:28,150 --> 00:35:25,440
to to to

985
00:35:29,750 --> 00:35:28,160
to be numb and when did you finally tell

986
00:35:31,349 --> 00:35:29,760
your parents

987
00:35:32,870 --> 00:35:31,359
i didn't they thought they it was

988
00:35:34,790 --> 00:35:32,880
brought to them uh

989
00:35:37,190 --> 00:35:34,800
when that when that boy went home and

990
00:35:39,990 --> 00:35:37,200
while i was in it when i was 16

991
00:35:41,190 --> 00:35:40,000
and uh told his parents uh the state

992
00:35:42,870 --> 00:35:41,200
took the case and the

993
00:35:45,190 --> 00:35:42,880
state police were involved and they

994
00:35:46,950 --> 00:35:45,200
contacted my parents and told them

995
00:35:49,349 --> 00:35:46,960
what had happened and they had pictures

996
00:35:49,990 --> 00:35:49,359
and brought them in and had them look at

997
00:35:52,870 --> 00:35:50,000
the pictures

998
00:35:53,750 --> 00:35:52,880
and uh and then my parents approached me

999
00:35:56,310 --> 00:35:53,760
and and

1000
00:35:58,310 --> 00:35:56,320
uh told me what what had happened and

1001
00:36:00,390 --> 00:35:58,320
boy that was that was one night

1002
00:36:02,310 --> 00:36:00,400
i think i took about half the house out

1003
00:36:03,750 --> 00:36:02,320
literally

1004
00:36:05,750 --> 00:36:03,760
you took the half the house out you were

1005
00:36:08,230 --> 00:36:05,760
upset i i removed walls

1006
00:36:10,310 --> 00:36:08,240
i mean doors everything came down it was

1007
00:36:13,670 --> 00:36:10,320
like a tornado

1008
00:36:14,310 --> 00:36:13,680
i mean i just exploded walk us through

1009
00:36:16,150 --> 00:36:14,320
how that

1010
00:36:18,310 --> 00:36:16,160
conversation went what did they say to

1011
00:36:22,390 --> 00:36:18,320
you when they first approached you on it

1012
00:36:24,470 --> 00:36:22,400
um i i as soon as they started talking

1013
00:36:25,190 --> 00:36:24,480
about it i think i think i think i shut

1014
00:36:26,870 --> 00:36:25,200
off i think

1015
00:36:28,630 --> 00:36:26,880
i should completely shut off because i

1016
00:36:29,990 --> 00:36:28,640
don't have a great recollection of the

1017
00:36:31,750 --> 00:36:30,000
conversation at all

1018
00:36:33,349 --> 00:36:31,760
i do have a recollection of that they

1019
00:36:35,430 --> 00:36:33,359
needed me to come in

1020
00:36:36,550 --> 00:36:35,440
and they need to talk to me and that's

1021
00:36:40,310 --> 00:36:36,560
what started and i

1022
00:36:42,710 --> 00:36:40,320
just i mean i just i just snapped

1023
00:36:44,230 --> 00:36:42,720
and i literally i mean fists were going

1024
00:36:46,230 --> 00:36:44,240
i was studs

1025
00:36:46,630 --> 00:36:46,240
going through well i mean literally took

1026
00:36:48,230 --> 00:36:46,640
out

1027
00:36:51,270 --> 00:36:48,240
[Music]

1028
00:36:54,710 --> 00:36:51,280
opened up rooms it was

1029
00:36:56,069 --> 00:36:54,720
it was it was it was bad what what what

1030
00:36:59,030 --> 00:36:56,079
do you think was

1031
00:37:00,230 --> 00:36:59,040
causing embarrassment embarrassment my

1032
00:37:01,190 --> 00:37:00,240
high school friends would know what

1033
00:37:02,710 --> 00:37:01,200
happened to me i

1034
00:37:04,550 --> 00:37:02,720
there was there was a fear that was

1035
00:37:06,790 --> 00:37:04,560
always in the back of my mind and you

1036
00:37:08,230 --> 00:37:06,800
know at that age and in high school

1037
00:37:09,910 --> 00:37:08,240
i mean that's the worst thing that could

1038
00:37:11,430 --> 00:37:09,920
happen in the world you could you could

1039
00:37:12,950 --> 00:37:11,440
take a toe or a finger but

1040
00:37:14,870 --> 00:37:12,960
don't you know don't i can't be

1041
00:37:15,990 --> 00:37:14,880
embarrassed in front of my friends

1042
00:37:18,069 --> 00:37:16,000
and that you know that that was the

1043
00:37:19,670 --> 00:37:18,079
ultimate embarrassment they would no one

1044
00:37:22,710 --> 00:37:19,680
you know no one would ever understand

1045
00:37:25,510 --> 00:37:22,720
that what happened to me and

1046
00:37:26,150 --> 00:37:25,520
and and and how did your parents act

1047
00:37:30,390 --> 00:37:26,160
towards you

1048
00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:33,430
distant cause

1049
00:37:37,589 --> 00:37:35,829
robotic that'd be that'd be a great word

1050
00:37:39,030 --> 00:37:37,599
robotic

1051
00:37:40,390 --> 00:37:39,040
they uh they went through the motions

1052
00:37:42,710 --> 00:37:40,400
they did what they felt they had to do

1053
00:37:45,670 --> 00:37:42,720
they did what they were told to do

1054
00:37:47,589 --> 00:37:45,680
um you know my my poor dad he was he was

1055
00:37:50,150 --> 00:37:47,599
a very loving caring guy and i

1056
00:37:51,750 --> 00:37:50,160
and you you know now i can see that and

1057
00:37:52,630 --> 00:37:51,760
uh he was very controlled by my mother

1058
00:37:54,790 --> 00:37:52,640
who was a

1059
00:37:55,670 --> 00:37:54,800
more of a cold calculated and not a bad

1060
00:37:57,430 --> 00:37:55,680
person but

1061
00:37:58,870 --> 00:37:57,440
come to find out that she had you know a

1062
00:38:00,550 --> 00:37:58,880
lot of abuse and

1063
00:38:02,230 --> 00:38:00,560
and other things in her childhood and

1064
00:38:06,150 --> 00:38:02,240
background that i'm sure

1065
00:38:09,910 --> 00:38:08,230
it they just they they did what they

1066
00:38:12,069 --> 00:38:09,920
felt they were supposed to do

1067
00:38:13,670 --> 00:38:12,079
inside in light of what other people

1068
00:38:15,109 --> 00:38:13,680
would they were always much more

1069
00:38:15,829 --> 00:38:15,119
concerned with what other people would

1070
00:38:17,430 --> 00:38:15,839
think

1071
00:38:19,109 --> 00:38:17,440
not what was best for me or best for my

1072
00:38:21,510 --> 00:38:19,119
sister best for the family it was

1073
00:38:22,230 --> 00:38:21,520
what will other people think what and

1074
00:38:23,990 --> 00:38:22,240
and more than

1075
00:38:25,829 --> 00:38:24,000
more than more often times than not it

1076
00:38:26,870 --> 00:38:25,839
was it was not the right choices that

1077
00:38:29,910 --> 00:38:26,880
they made

1078
00:38:32,950 --> 00:38:29,920
so they were not warm embraces

1079
00:38:35,109 --> 00:38:32,960
no no it was it was and

1080
00:38:36,710 --> 00:38:35,119
and and in their defense i mean you know

1081
00:38:37,190 --> 00:38:36,720
that's like trying to give a hug to a

1082
00:38:40,390 --> 00:38:37,200
you know

1083
00:38:43,430 --> 00:38:40,400
a tornado i mean it's

1084
00:38:45,430 --> 00:38:43,440
that even even beyond uh

1085
00:38:48,470 --> 00:38:45,440
that oh yeah that started it started a

1086
00:38:50,310 --> 00:38:48,480
train a a train of events that just

1087
00:38:51,750 --> 00:38:50,320
that led up to me you know becoming

1088
00:38:53,270 --> 00:38:51,760
involved with the irish mob and you know

1089
00:38:53,990 --> 00:38:53,280
robbing banks and armored cars for a

1090
00:38:55,510 --> 00:38:54,000
living and

1091
00:38:57,109 --> 00:38:55,520
you know a lot of other horrific things

1092
00:39:01,349 --> 00:38:57,119
and it

1093
00:39:03,829 --> 00:39:01,359
that day on

1094
00:39:05,910 --> 00:39:03,839
did they put you in any type of therapy

1095
00:39:09,190 --> 00:39:05,920
at 16 when they found this out

1096
00:39:10,790 --> 00:39:09,200
they didn't um i i burned down a chinese

1097
00:39:11,109 --> 00:39:10,800
restaurant with with a lot of people in

1098
00:39:14,310 --> 00:39:11,119
it

1099
00:39:14,630 --> 00:39:14,320
um and and that was the final straw they

1100
00:39:17,829 --> 00:39:14,640
were

1101
00:39:20,630 --> 00:39:17,839
i was my my mother's brother my uncle

1102
00:39:21,030 --> 00:39:20,640
fred was a very very prominent attorney

1103
00:39:26,710 --> 00:39:21,040
in

1104
00:39:29,829 --> 00:39:26,720
out of juvie hall

1105
00:39:32,790 --> 00:39:29,839
and to keep me out of any kind of real

1106
00:39:34,390 --> 00:39:32,800
repercussions for my behaviors um but

1107
00:39:36,230 --> 00:39:34,400
the chinese restaurant

1108
00:39:37,510 --> 00:39:36,240
was that was the final straw people were

1109
00:39:40,950 --> 00:39:37,520
injured and

1110
00:39:44,230 --> 00:39:40,960
um and so it was juvie hall or it was

1111
00:39:45,829 --> 00:39:44,240
rehab and that was i was 16

1112
00:39:47,349 --> 00:39:45,839
so that was my that was my first first

1113
00:39:48,950 --> 00:39:47,359
stint in rehab and

1114
00:39:50,390 --> 00:39:48,960
back then they they didn't have child

1115
00:39:51,750 --> 00:39:50,400
rehab they they threw you right in with

1116
00:39:54,790 --> 00:39:51,760
the adults it was a

1117
00:39:57,190 --> 00:39:54,800
great experience was it re

1118
00:39:58,150 --> 00:39:57,200
it was rehab for drugs and alcohol drugs

1119
00:40:01,510 --> 00:39:58,160
and alcohol right

1120
00:40:03,109 --> 00:40:01,520
what about therapy for the abuse i think

1121
00:40:05,430 --> 00:40:03,119
at the time they were hoping maybe that

1122
00:40:08,150 --> 00:40:05,440
would get thrown in there and it

1123
00:40:09,670 --> 00:40:08,160
it just didn't it uh have you ever been

1124
00:40:13,589 --> 00:40:09,680
through therapy for the abuse

1125
00:40:17,910 --> 00:40:13,599
i have i have yeah quite extensively

1126
00:40:20,230 --> 00:40:17,920
still in therapy no not at this point

1127
00:40:22,309 --> 00:40:20,240
and why did you burn down the chinese

1128
00:40:24,470 --> 00:40:22,319
restaurant

1129
00:40:26,150 --> 00:40:24,480
we had been in there drinking um i was

1130
00:40:28,150 --> 00:40:26,160
again i was with uh

1131
00:40:29,510 --> 00:40:28,160
two buddies who were you know much older

1132
00:40:32,470 --> 00:40:29,520
four or five years older than me

1133
00:40:34,069 --> 00:40:32,480
and um the there were some hell's angels

1134
00:40:36,950 --> 00:40:34,079
in there that were

1135
00:40:37,990 --> 00:40:36,960
uh the bartender finally said that you

1136
00:40:39,990 --> 00:40:38,000
know i wasn't old enough

1137
00:40:41,349 --> 00:40:40,000
he's and i was drunk off my you know

1138
00:40:43,670 --> 00:40:41,359
house and

1139
00:40:45,430 --> 00:40:43,680
i told us no more serving and we had to

1140
00:40:47,670 --> 00:40:45,440
leave and we you know we we put up a

1141
00:40:50,470 --> 00:40:47,680
ruckus and the bikers came over and

1142
00:40:52,470 --> 00:40:50,480
uh intervened and there was a big brawl

1143
00:40:53,430 --> 00:40:52,480
and whatnot we got our our butts whooped

1144
00:40:54,550 --> 00:40:53,440
and

1145
00:40:55,589 --> 00:40:54,560
so we thought it was a good idea to go

1146
00:40:56,630 --> 00:40:55,599
home we're going to make them all tough

1147
00:40:58,230 --> 00:40:56,640
cocktails and we're going to come back

1148
00:41:01,910 --> 00:40:58,240
and we'll show them

1149
00:41:04,950 --> 00:41:01,920
and uh yeah we did yeah

1150
00:41:06,870 --> 00:41:04,960
so so that lands you in uh

1151
00:41:08,309 --> 00:41:06,880
rehab you're i guess you're lucky it

1152
00:41:10,470 --> 00:41:08,319
didn't land you more than

1153
00:41:12,150 --> 00:41:10,480
that yeah but the rehab today today i'm

1154
00:41:15,190 --> 00:41:12,160
sure it would landed me in love with

1155
00:41:18,790 --> 00:41:15,200
yeah and then how did you connect with

1156
00:41:22,710 --> 00:41:21,829
i was actually i guess i had gained a

1157
00:41:26,550 --> 00:41:22,720
reputation

1158
00:41:28,230 --> 00:41:26,560
throughout the years um that that

1159
00:41:31,030 --> 00:41:28,240
was a little broader than than the

1160
00:41:33,349 --> 00:41:31,040
borders that i that i really thought of

1161
00:41:34,790 --> 00:41:33,359
um and and i was actually approached by

1162
00:41:38,230 --> 00:41:34,800
someone that

1163
00:41:41,330 --> 00:41:38,240
um a cell that they had needed

1164
00:41:42,630 --> 00:41:41,340
a fourth member of an armed robbery cell

1165
00:41:45,510 --> 00:41:42,640
[Music]

1166
00:41:47,349 --> 00:41:45,520
that robbed banks in our cars and uh

1167
00:41:50,390 --> 00:41:47,359
they wanted to talk to me

1168
00:41:52,150 --> 00:41:50,400
and i went and spoke to some gentlemen

1169
00:41:53,589 --> 00:41:52,160
and

1170
00:41:55,670 --> 00:41:53,599
you know thought at the time oh this

1171
00:41:56,470 --> 00:41:55,680
sounds fun sure let's give it a let's

1172
00:41:59,670 --> 00:41:56,480
give it a go

1173
00:42:02,230 --> 00:41:59,680
and really honestly had no idea what i

1174
00:42:05,670 --> 00:42:02,240
was getting involved in um

1175
00:42:07,670 --> 00:42:05,680
but and what point did you learn that it

1176
00:42:10,390 --> 00:42:07,680
was connected with whitey bulger and did

1177
00:42:13,829 --> 00:42:10,400
you know anything about him at the time

1178
00:42:15,750 --> 00:42:13,839
uh i didn't know i i i quickly knew who

1179
00:42:19,670 --> 00:42:15,760
jimmy was

1180
00:42:20,470 --> 00:42:19,680
i didn't know the stature that he had i

1181
00:42:23,589 --> 00:42:20,480
didn't

1182
00:42:25,109 --> 00:42:23,599
any of it

1183
00:42:27,030 --> 00:42:25,119
to me it was it was something

1184
00:42:29,270 --> 00:42:27,040
adventurous and fun and

1185
00:42:30,309 --> 00:42:29,280
i sure liked the money and the drugs and

1186
00:42:31,990 --> 00:42:30,319
women were fantastic

1187
00:42:34,150 --> 00:42:32,000
and why would i want to not do anything

1188
00:42:37,750 --> 00:42:34,160
else and

1189
00:42:39,030 --> 00:42:37,760
but as time went on i i began to figure

1190
00:42:42,069 --> 00:42:39,040
out you know

1191
00:42:43,430 --> 00:42:42,079
who jimmy was and as as not only a

1192
00:42:44,550 --> 00:42:43,440
member of the irish mob and heading

1193
00:42:47,910 --> 00:42:44,560
heading up the irish mob

1194
00:42:50,309 --> 00:42:47,920
in new england there but uh

1195
00:42:52,309 --> 00:42:50,319
of what what kind of human being he was

1196
00:42:54,069 --> 00:42:52,319
and uh

1197
00:42:55,510 --> 00:42:54,079
that's that's when things became

1198
00:42:58,069 --> 00:42:55,520
uncomfortable

1199
00:43:01,109 --> 00:42:58,079
so he was known as jimmy to all you guys

1200
00:43:02,150 --> 00:43:01,119
and whitey to the rest of us

1201
00:43:04,950 --> 00:43:02,160
yeah you knew you never called him

1202
00:43:08,150 --> 00:43:04,960
whitey that would be very bad

1203
00:43:11,030 --> 00:43:08,160
uh-huh yeah you do not like that name

1204
00:43:11,750 --> 00:43:11,040
yeah you know my knowledge of the mob is

1205
00:43:15,510 --> 00:43:11,760
is strict

1206
00:43:17,430 --> 00:43:15,520
is relegated to movies so um

1207
00:43:19,030 --> 00:43:17,440
did they have the whole thing where you

1208
00:43:20,710 --> 00:43:19,040
know you're a made man and all that kind

1209
00:43:22,950 --> 00:43:20,720
of stuff

1210
00:43:24,230 --> 00:43:22,960
the irish were very disorganized the

1211
00:43:27,349 --> 00:43:24,240
irish would take anybody

1212
00:43:28,390 --> 00:43:27,359
if feel willing to do heinous things and

1213
00:43:31,589 --> 00:43:28,400
act like an idiot then

1214
00:43:33,829 --> 00:43:31,599
yeah you're in um but but basically he

1215
00:43:34,550 --> 00:43:33,839
was he was running the crime syndicate

1216
00:43:36,950 --> 00:43:34,560
though

1217
00:43:39,190 --> 00:43:36,960
he was and ultimately what would you

1218
00:43:40,710 --> 00:43:39,200
guess at its height he had as far as

1219
00:43:43,750 --> 00:43:40,720
guys

1220
00:43:45,340 --> 00:43:43,760
working for him oh i mean winter hill

1221
00:43:48,470 --> 00:43:45,350
game went way back to

1222
00:43:51,829 --> 00:43:48,480
[Music]

1223
00:43:52,470 --> 00:43:51,839
late 50s i think early 60s i mean over

1224
00:43:54,950 --> 00:43:52,480
the years

1225
00:43:56,870 --> 00:43:54,960
you know hundreds but at any given time

1226
00:44:01,670 --> 00:43:56,880
i mean i knew there was

1227
00:44:03,430 --> 00:44:01,680
you know in excess of 100 or so of us

1228
00:44:06,550 --> 00:44:03,440
and would you say was he the biggest in

1229
00:44:08,950 --> 00:44:06,560
the boston area or not

1230
00:44:09,990 --> 00:44:08,960
no and that's why the the the feds the

1231
00:44:13,190 --> 00:44:10,000
fbi

1232
00:44:15,670 --> 00:44:13,200
was making this allegiance with him

1233
00:44:17,030 --> 00:44:15,680
uh they the the the italians were much

1234
00:44:17,750 --> 00:44:17,040
more in the spotlight they were much

1235
00:44:19,829 --> 00:44:17,760
more you know

1236
00:44:21,349 --> 00:44:19,839
the movies were being made about them

1237
00:44:23,349 --> 00:44:21,359
the uh

1238
00:44:24,950 --> 00:44:23,359
so as long as jimmy was providing them

1239
00:44:26,309 --> 00:44:24,960
with information about the italians and

1240
00:44:27,349 --> 00:44:26,319
able to you know help them bring

1241
00:44:29,030 --> 00:44:27,359
italians down

1242
00:44:31,109 --> 00:44:29,040
and that's what that's what played out

1243
00:44:33,030 --> 00:44:31,119
in the tvs and the news

1244
00:44:34,390 --> 00:44:33,040
um they were willing to turn their back

1245
00:44:36,069 --> 00:44:34,400
on what jimmy was doing all

1246
00:44:38,150 --> 00:44:36,079
they just didn't have any idea of what

1247
00:44:39,270 --> 00:44:38,160
jimmy was actually doing

1248
00:44:42,630 --> 00:44:39,280
and the amount of people who were

1249
00:44:44,230 --> 00:44:42,640
disappearing and it's just it was

1250
00:44:45,910 --> 00:44:44,240
so yeah that's the big controversy i

1251
00:44:47,750 --> 00:44:45,920
guess is the fact that the fbi

1252
00:44:51,109 --> 00:44:47,760
allowed him to continue to do what he

1253
00:44:54,230 --> 00:44:51,119
was doing in exchange for ratting out

1254
00:44:56,550 --> 00:44:54,240
larger groups right yeah

1255
00:44:57,750 --> 00:44:56,560
friends of mine yeah yeah cadillac frank

1256
00:44:58,870 --> 00:44:57,760
you know raymond patrick those are

1257
00:45:00,069 --> 00:44:58,880
friends i mean i knew them they were

1258
00:45:02,630 --> 00:45:00,079
frightened

1259
00:45:04,230 --> 00:45:02,640
uh yeah in fact i was i was some mates

1260
00:45:07,589 --> 00:45:04,240
with one of them and uh

1261
00:45:09,589 --> 00:45:07,599
it uh yeah he not none of us knew none

1262
00:45:11,670 --> 00:45:09,599
of us knew what jimmy was doing until

1263
00:45:12,790 --> 00:45:11,680
literally until until the feds broke it

1264
00:45:14,309 --> 00:45:12,800
and and that

1265
00:45:16,150 --> 00:45:14,319
when that arrest warrant came out he was

1266
00:45:19,109 --> 00:45:16,160
a he was a

1267
00:45:19,910 --> 00:45:19,119
he was a smart incredibly intelligent

1268
00:45:23,750 --> 00:45:19,920
sick

1269
00:45:25,349 --> 00:45:23,760
mafia groups

1270
00:45:26,790 --> 00:45:25,359
they're the competition so the fact that

1271
00:45:29,270 --> 00:45:26,800
he was uh

1272
00:45:30,230 --> 00:45:29,280
ratting them out is not necessary but we

1273
00:45:32,950 --> 00:45:30,240
all we all

1274
00:45:34,790 --> 00:45:32,960
shared and everybody still kind of

1275
00:45:38,069 --> 00:45:34,800
worked hand in hand

1276
00:45:39,510 --> 00:45:38,079
but you you you were on the outside

1277
00:45:41,109 --> 00:45:39,520
on the outside you were you were

1278
00:45:42,069 --> 00:45:41,119
different organizations you were you

1279
00:45:45,109 --> 00:45:42,079
weren't enemies

1280
00:45:46,069 --> 00:45:45,119
but you weren't friends you respected

1281
00:45:49,349 --> 00:45:46,079
each other's

1282
00:45:49,910 --> 00:45:49,359
business and territories right and yeah

1283
00:45:57,030 --> 00:45:49,920
and

1284
00:45:59,589 --> 00:45:57,040
but so how is it so

1285
00:46:01,670 --> 00:45:59,599
jimmy slash whitey was very fortunate

1286
00:46:04,230 --> 00:46:01,680
that he didn't get whacked by

1287
00:46:04,790 --> 00:46:04,240
one of these italian mobs when this came

1288
00:46:06,710 --> 00:46:04,800
to light

1289
00:46:08,150 --> 00:46:06,720
right oh they there yeah they were they

1290
00:46:09,430 --> 00:46:08,160
were attempts but jimmy was always one

1291
00:46:10,630 --> 00:46:09,440
step ahead of him

1292
00:46:13,349 --> 00:46:10,640
yeah there was a lot of attempts a lot

1293
00:46:15,430 --> 00:46:13,359
of plans a lot of plots

1294
00:46:17,030 --> 00:46:15,440
he just always seemed to have that piece

1295
00:46:18,470 --> 00:46:17,040
of information that he needed to not be

1296
00:46:21,750 --> 00:46:18,480
where he should have been or or

1297
00:46:25,349 --> 00:46:21,760
you know so at some point you were

1298
00:46:29,910 --> 00:46:25,359
caught arrested uh

1299
00:46:34,390 --> 00:46:32,630
uh we well we i'm just so it's a long

1300
00:46:35,750 --> 00:46:34,400
call it's a it's a pretty in-depth story

1301
00:46:38,470 --> 00:46:35,760
but it um i'll give you

1302
00:46:40,470 --> 00:46:38,480
the cliff notes we we had an armored car

1303
00:46:44,069 --> 00:46:40,480
driver who was retired and gave us

1304
00:46:45,190 --> 00:46:44,079
um gave us roots and gave us you know

1305
00:46:46,790 --> 00:46:45,200
you can't just walk into a bank

1306
00:46:47,990 --> 00:46:46,800
something and hit a bank you know you

1307
00:46:49,589 --> 00:46:48,000
could you could hit the vault they might

1308
00:46:52,950 --> 00:46:49,599
be you know

1309
00:46:54,309 --> 00:46:52,960
7 500 in there so we we we made sure

1310
00:46:56,309 --> 00:46:54,319
that you know the faults had just been

1311
00:46:57,670 --> 00:46:56,319
filled or the armored cars were carrying

1312
00:46:59,109 --> 00:46:57,680
large amounts and we got that inside

1313
00:47:03,190 --> 00:46:59,119
information and

1314
00:47:05,589 --> 00:47:03,200
so it uh it was a it was a

1315
00:47:07,910 --> 00:47:05,599
we became suspect after the armed car

1316
00:47:09,670 --> 00:47:07,920
driver gave us up he became suspect and

1317
00:47:11,510 --> 00:47:09,680
gave us up and then they very quickly

1318
00:47:14,069 --> 00:47:11,520
put everything together and

1319
00:47:15,109 --> 00:47:14,079
uh secret indictments were put together

1320
00:47:18,150 --> 00:47:15,119
and handed down

1321
00:47:20,150 --> 00:47:18,160
and uh it all happened very quickly

1322
00:47:22,710 --> 00:47:20,160
um so it's it's one of those situations

1323
00:47:25,990 --> 00:47:22,720
where everybody's um

1324
00:47:28,069 --> 00:47:26,000
ratting out the guy above him no

1325
00:47:29,750 --> 00:47:28,079
not at all no there really wasn't a lot

1326
00:47:31,349 --> 00:47:29,760
of there wasn't a lot of ratting

1327
00:47:34,390 --> 00:47:31,359
well but sorry but what i mean is the

1328
00:47:36,630 --> 00:47:34,400
armored car guy they had busted him

1329
00:47:37,430 --> 00:47:36,640
he points the finger at you guys he he

1330
00:47:40,549 --> 00:47:37,440
gave us up

1331
00:47:41,190 --> 00:47:40,559
pretty quickly and uh and they they were

1332
00:47:43,670 --> 00:47:41,200
able to

1333
00:47:45,190 --> 00:47:43,680
they put a lot together very quickly and

1334
00:47:48,710 --> 00:47:45,200
those indictments came down

1335
00:47:51,109 --> 00:47:48,720
um gianni was picked up immediately uh

1336
00:47:52,470 --> 00:47:51,119
bobby was picked up right after him i

1337
00:47:56,630 --> 00:47:52,480
was went into hiding

1338
00:47:59,430 --> 00:47:56,640
in a um an italian mob friend of mine's

1339
00:48:01,030 --> 00:47:59,440
uh who was in vegas for the winter and

1340
00:48:02,309 --> 00:48:01,040
uh so i'm i'm hiding in a house in

1341
00:48:05,589 --> 00:48:02,319
massachusetts in

1342
00:48:07,829 --> 00:48:05,599
the end of december january and and

1343
00:48:08,870 --> 00:48:07,839
through february with no heat no water

1344
00:48:12,470 --> 00:48:08,880
no

1345
00:48:14,630 --> 00:48:12,480
uh kicking an ungodly amount of heroin

1346
00:48:17,030 --> 00:48:14,640
and coke and alcohol and everything

1347
00:48:18,069 --> 00:48:17,040
it was it was a brutal brutal time it

1348
00:48:21,109 --> 00:48:18,079
was it was horrific

1349
00:48:23,270 --> 00:48:21,119
and uh yeah it and

1350
00:48:24,710 --> 00:48:23,280
after a period of time i thought you

1351
00:48:25,349 --> 00:48:24,720
know they got johnny they got they got

1352
00:48:27,750 --> 00:48:25,359
bobby

1353
00:48:28,710 --> 00:48:27,760
uh ronnie was on the run somewhere and

1354
00:48:31,109 --> 00:48:28,720
uh in florida

1355
00:48:32,150 --> 00:48:31,119
and uh they didn't have enough to get me

1356
00:48:33,510 --> 00:48:32,160
i thought

1357
00:48:35,829 --> 00:48:33,520
i got to change my life this has got to

1358
00:48:36,870 --> 00:48:35,839
stop and i knew i had a speeding ticket

1359
00:48:39,910 --> 00:48:36,880
for a uh for a

1360
00:48:41,109 --> 00:48:39,920
uh award for a speeding ticket uh that i

1361
00:48:42,309 --> 00:48:41,119
needed to clear up that was the only

1362
00:48:43,829 --> 00:48:42,319
thing that i could think of that was out

1363
00:48:48,230 --> 00:48:43,839
that i needed to

1364
00:48:48,950 --> 00:48:48,240
to start this new life um and sure

1365
00:48:51,030 --> 00:48:48,960
enough ai

1366
00:48:52,470 --> 00:48:51,040
went into i had a crooked cop that we

1367
00:48:53,589 --> 00:48:52,480
had on the payroll take me down to the

1368
00:48:55,430 --> 00:48:53,599
courts and

1369
00:48:58,549 --> 00:48:55,440
uh so i could get this cleared up and

1370
00:48:59,670 --> 00:48:58,559
well they had other plans

1371
00:49:01,990 --> 00:48:59,680
the secret indictment was in the

1372
00:49:02,309 --> 00:49:02,000
computer waiting and when my name hit it

1373
00:49:05,990 --> 00:49:02,319
was

1374
00:49:09,829 --> 00:49:06,000
uh yeah wow hell has no fury

1375
00:49:13,510 --> 00:49:09,839
hell open and ultimately you

1376
00:49:14,829 --> 00:49:13,520
did a plea deal i did and put

1377
00:49:17,589 --> 00:49:14,839
that put you in the witness protection

1378
00:49:18,870 --> 00:49:17,599
program no that's the the

1379
00:49:20,230 --> 00:49:18,880
the media likes to portray it as a

1380
00:49:21,670 --> 00:49:20,240
witness protection program i'm not in

1381
00:49:23,750 --> 00:49:21,680
any in any form of the witness

1382
00:49:24,870 --> 00:49:23,760
protection program uh 30 years ago i was

1383
00:49:26,230 --> 00:49:24,880
given a new name and a new social

1384
00:49:28,630 --> 00:49:26,240
security number

1385
00:49:29,589 --> 00:49:28,640
and uh through the attorney general's

1386
00:49:32,150 --> 00:49:29,599
office and that's

1387
00:49:33,349 --> 00:49:32,160
that's the gist of it i don't i don't

1388
00:49:34,549 --> 00:49:33,359
answer to anybody i'm not in anybody's

1389
00:49:37,270 --> 00:49:34,559
control and and the

1390
00:49:37,750 --> 00:49:37,280
and the testifying that was done again

1391
00:49:44,630 --> 00:49:37,760
very

1392
00:49:47,430 --> 00:49:44,640
years so did you

1393
00:49:49,030 --> 00:49:47,440
spend time in prison as you did for that

1394
00:49:50,069 --> 00:49:49,040
how much time

1395
00:49:53,510 --> 00:49:50,079
i was there for about two and a half

1396
00:49:55,270 --> 00:49:53,520
years nothing substantial

1397
00:49:57,030 --> 00:49:55,280
so that was part of the plea deal though

1398
00:50:00,230 --> 00:49:57,040
was you've got to give up

1399
00:50:02,150 --> 00:50:00,240
give up some people and um

1400
00:50:03,270 --> 00:50:02,160
which inevitably saved a lot of other

1401
00:50:06,390 --> 00:50:03,280
people and

1402
00:50:07,109 --> 00:50:06,400
uh yeah and i was given time served and

1403
00:50:09,109 --> 00:50:07,119
was

1404
00:50:11,270 --> 00:50:09,119
jimmy bulger one of the ones that they

1405
00:50:14,870 --> 00:50:11,280
wanted information on

1406
00:50:16,710 --> 00:50:14,880
that they were and i was supposed to uh

1407
00:50:18,230 --> 00:50:16,720
part of my plea deal was i was supposed

1408
00:50:18,870 --> 00:50:18,240
to give all that information at that

1409
00:50:20,309 --> 00:50:18,880
time

1410
00:50:22,549 --> 00:50:20,319
anything i had been involved in anything

1411
00:50:25,109 --> 00:50:22,559
i had done anybody i knew

1412
00:50:25,990 --> 00:50:25,119
and i didn't i didn't give a lot of what

1413
00:50:29,190 --> 00:50:26,000
i knew or or

1414
00:50:30,470 --> 00:50:29,200
who i knew and i kept it very localized

1415
00:50:34,069 --> 00:50:30,480
to who i was supposed to

1416
00:50:36,710 --> 00:50:34,079
and um in writing the book i um

1417
00:50:37,349 --> 00:50:36,720
i i irritated the government let's just

1418
00:50:39,109 --> 00:50:37,359
say

1419
00:50:40,390 --> 00:50:39,119
and they're not real happy with me i

1420
00:50:42,630 --> 00:50:40,400
think they feel like

1421
00:50:44,150 --> 00:50:42,640
maybe i made them look stupid or silly

1422
00:50:46,950 --> 00:50:44,160
or something i don't know

1423
00:50:48,069 --> 00:50:46,960
but uh is it that lady network opened up

1424
00:50:49,750 --> 00:50:48,079
a can of worms for me

1425
00:50:51,750 --> 00:50:49,760
so you shared information in the book

1426
00:50:54,950 --> 00:50:51,760
that you didn't share with them is that

1427
00:50:57,510 --> 00:50:54,960
correct uh-huh and uh

1428
00:50:58,630 --> 00:50:57,520
and then i purposely withheld it and i

1429
00:50:59,109 --> 00:50:58,640
don't think they're real happy about

1430
00:51:01,670 --> 00:50:59,119
that

1431
00:51:02,950 --> 00:51:01,680
and you're saying there's some truth to

1432
00:51:06,710 --> 00:51:02,960
that

1433
00:51:09,030 --> 00:51:06,720
yes and you withheld it

1434
00:51:11,349 --> 00:51:09,040
just to uh what protect these

1435
00:51:13,990 --> 00:51:11,359
individuals

1436
00:51:15,190 --> 00:51:14,000
your friends they weren't they weren't

1437
00:51:19,190 --> 00:51:15,200
and they weren't who

1438
00:51:20,549 --> 00:51:19,200
i was supposed to be uh

1439
00:51:22,150 --> 00:51:20,559
bringing down and they and they were and

1440
00:51:23,190 --> 00:51:22,160
they weren't the ones who were were

1441
00:51:26,630 --> 00:51:23,200
threatening my life

1442
00:51:29,589 --> 00:51:26,640
i i took a 40-year plea bargain uh

1443
00:51:31,349 --> 00:51:29,599
and and was completely prepared to to

1444
00:51:31,750 --> 00:51:31,359
start that sentence and to and to do

1445
00:51:34,710 --> 00:51:31,760
that

1446
00:51:35,990 --> 00:51:34,720
and they wanted me my co-defendants

1447
00:51:37,430 --> 00:51:36,000
along with what else was going

1448
00:51:39,750 --> 00:51:37,440
on in the in the background they wanted

1449
00:51:40,710 --> 00:51:39,760
me to to testify for them after i was

1450
00:51:42,069 --> 00:51:40,720
sentenced and

1451
00:51:44,309 --> 00:51:42,079
the federal government found out about

1452
00:51:45,430 --> 00:51:44,319
that and very quickly made me aware that

1453
00:51:49,030 --> 00:51:45,440
i would be doing my

1454
00:51:51,270 --> 00:51:49,040
258 years on top of my 40 and

1455
00:51:52,309 --> 00:51:51,280
so it came down to that you're young you

1456
00:51:53,589 --> 00:51:52,319
don't have a

1457
00:51:55,430 --> 00:51:53,599
then you'll be well taken care of in

1458
00:51:57,430 --> 00:51:55,440
here and you're gonna do it or you know

1459
00:52:00,069 --> 00:51:57,440
we're gonna kill you

1460
00:52:01,910 --> 00:52:00,079
so uh that obviously played into it too

1461
00:52:03,430 --> 00:52:01,920
um there was there was a lot of a lot of

1462
00:52:06,150 --> 00:52:03,440
stuff going on

1463
00:52:06,470 --> 00:52:06,160
did you ever actually take the stand in

1464
00:53:02,309 --> 00:52:06,480
a

1465
00:53:03,910 --> 00:53:02,319
they could uh they weren't going to let

1466
00:53:07,349 --> 00:53:03,920
jimmy get away with what he

1467
00:53:09,030 --> 00:53:07,359
he made our the fbi look like

1468
00:53:10,630 --> 00:53:09,040
you know a group of kindergarten kids on

1469
00:53:13,990 --> 00:53:10,640
a field trip that you know

1470
00:53:17,670 --> 00:53:14,000
lost on a bus i mean he played the the

1471
00:53:20,309 --> 00:53:17,680
the fbi in ways that

1472
00:53:21,430 --> 00:53:20,319
they were not going to let just fly so

1473
00:53:23,430 --> 00:53:21,440
they waited there a lot of amount of

1474
00:53:24,549 --> 00:53:23,440
time and they moved jimmy to a a

1475
00:53:27,430 --> 00:53:24,559
facility where

1476
00:53:29,109 --> 00:53:27,440
they knew was uh heavily populated by

1477
00:53:31,349 --> 00:53:29,119
italian he had been

1478
00:53:33,510 --> 00:53:31,359
um and knew he probably would last a day

1479
00:53:37,270 --> 00:53:33,520
or two and i think he lasted about

1480
00:53:38,790 --> 00:53:37,280
12 hours was was someone uh convicted of

1481
00:53:41,990 --> 00:53:38,800
his murder

1482
00:53:45,030 --> 00:53:42,000
i believe so

1483
00:53:47,750 --> 00:53:45,040
uh i don't yeah i believe i believe um

1484
00:53:48,150 --> 00:53:47,760
i believe he was right but these would

1485
00:53:51,190 --> 00:53:48,160
have been

1486
00:53:52,790 --> 00:53:51,200
italian mafia it meant

1487
00:53:54,549 --> 00:53:52,800
retaliating for the fact that he had

1488
00:53:57,750 --> 00:53:54,559
been cooperating with the fbi

1489
00:53:59,750 --> 00:53:57,760
that jimmy either put away or um

1490
00:54:01,349 --> 00:53:59,760
or was instrumental in helping in some

1491
00:54:03,270 --> 00:54:01,359
form put away

1492
00:54:05,109 --> 00:54:03,280
there's a movie with johnny depp right

1493
00:54:08,309 --> 00:54:05,119
where he plays bulger

1494
00:54:08,950 --> 00:54:08,319
yes um blackness black mass yeah i

1495
00:54:12,309 --> 00:54:08,960
haven't

1496
00:54:14,230 --> 00:54:12,319
seen it is it uh i assume you've seen it

1497
00:54:15,430 --> 00:54:14,240
is it accurate oh yeah i've seen it and

1498
00:54:18,069 --> 00:54:15,440
then yeah it had

1499
00:54:19,510 --> 00:54:18,079
a little partner um it uh it's yeah it's

1500
00:54:22,710 --> 00:54:19,520
it's it's very accurate

1501
00:54:24,069 --> 00:54:22,720
as to the the whole story and how things

1502
00:54:27,270 --> 00:54:24,079
kind of

1503
00:54:30,069 --> 00:54:27,280
played out and what happened so

1504
00:54:30,870 --> 00:54:30,079
tell us what's going on with you today

1505
00:54:34,150 --> 00:54:30,880
in light of

1506
00:54:35,750 --> 00:54:34,160
um the book and you're saying that you

1507
00:54:39,589 --> 00:54:35,760
believe the

1508
00:54:42,069 --> 00:54:39,599
fbi is not real pleased with you

1509
00:54:43,750 --> 00:54:42,079
i i i think it probably started there i

1510
00:54:45,829 --> 00:54:43,760
um

1511
00:54:47,750 --> 00:54:45,839
make a long story short i've i've ended

1512
00:54:49,670 --> 00:54:47,760
up on a list that i'd prefer not to be

1513
00:54:53,109 --> 00:54:49,680
on and uh

1514
00:54:54,069 --> 00:54:53,119
i am my i'm being brutalized at many

1515
00:54:57,030 --> 00:54:54,079
many levels

1516
00:54:58,150 --> 00:54:57,040
i've i've lost my home my business my i

1517
00:55:02,230 --> 00:54:58,160
live in my car

1518
00:55:05,829 --> 00:55:02,240
i've my being physically harmed i'm

1519
00:55:06,390 --> 00:55:05,839
it's i mean it's there are things going

1520
00:55:08,069 --> 00:55:06,400
on that i

1521
00:55:10,549 --> 00:55:08,079
i couldn't even begin to comprehend i

1522
00:55:14,150 --> 00:55:10,559
have picture and video footage

1523
00:55:17,190 --> 00:55:14,160
i mean the hundreds thou that i just

1524
00:55:18,870 --> 00:55:17,200
you can't even comprehend and you're

1525
00:55:21,109 --> 00:55:18,880
being tormented you believe

1526
00:55:22,470 --> 00:55:21,119
by the federal government yeah

1527
00:55:26,470 --> 00:55:22,480
absolutely

1528
00:55:27,829 --> 00:55:26,480
not the italian mob no no

1529
00:55:29,829 --> 00:55:27,839
absolutely not no they tell you well

1530
00:55:32,069 --> 00:55:29,839
that's kidding me that's still a lot of

1531
00:55:34,390 --> 00:55:32,079
mostly friends of mine

1532
00:55:35,190 --> 00:55:34,400
um yeah i still i still keep i still

1533
00:55:37,589 --> 00:55:35,200
keep ties with

1534
00:55:39,109 --> 00:55:37,599
with you know people to uh to make sure

1535
00:55:39,670 --> 00:55:39,119
i know what's going on and whatnot but

1536
00:55:41,589 --> 00:55:39,680
uh

1537
00:55:43,030 --> 00:55:41,599
i by no means live that life anymore i

1538
00:55:44,309 --> 00:55:43,040
haven't for a very long time

1539
00:55:46,950 --> 00:55:44,319
thank you again to eric schneider you

1540
00:55:49,430 --> 00:55:46,960
can check out his book the choir boy

1541
00:55:50,390 --> 00:55:49,440
that is on amazon thank you also to our

1542
00:55:51,990 --> 00:55:50,400
producer

1543
00:55:56,789 --> 00:55:52,000
michael parker we'll be back soon with

1544
00:55:59,990 --> 00:55:58,309
thank you for listening to the truth

1545
00:56:01,549 --> 00:56:00,000
show with jim breslow

1546
00:56:03,589 --> 00:56:01,559
you can find us at hidden

1547
00:56:05,750 --> 00:56:03,599
hiddentruthshow.com

1548
00:56:06,630 --> 00:56:05,760
follow us on facebook twitter and

1549
00:56:09,190 --> 00:56:06,640
instagram

1550
00:56:09,829 --> 00:56:09,200
that hit the truth show join us again

1551
00:56:12,549 --> 00:56:09,839
next week

1552
00:56:18,870 --> 00:56:12,559
for another episode of hidden truth show